Technology Degree Apprenticeships @ 25 Years Old

Dellboy

Dellboy

Dellboy

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I wanted to get some opinions hopefully from people with experience of working either within technology companies, IBs or professional service companies on the best route for someone interested in working within technology (software development/cyber security). Most of the companies I've applied for offer degree apprenticeships in Digital and Technology Solutions. Unfortunately going back to university isn't an option, partly due to the ridiculous fees and also these courses offer between £18-23k per year initially which would allow me to live without building up more debt.

Some context may be useful - I didn't finish my degree in a subject unrelated to Computer Science/Technology due to a couple of deaths in the family. Since leaving university I've been working in recruitment for four years and have done reasonably well - billed well, promoted etc. However, I have no interest in staying in recruitment. I don't find it stimulating and feel as though I'm not gaining any skills and am regressing academically. Having had time to reflect on what I find interesting and am passionate about Technology is high on my list, after rugby.

I'm through the initial stages of JP Morgan, Santander, National Grid, KPMG and am waiting to hear back from a number of other companies.

As someone looking to start a career either within software development or cyber security where would I expect to receive the best training, the most interesting work and the best benefits (salary, working hours etc.) I appreciate that no single company will offer the best of all of these categories and I would probably prioritise them in the order above.

Happy to answer any questions or clarify anything if needs be.
 
I've been working as a software developer in various midsize companies for the last 10 years. Most dedicated software companies will not look at a graduate/junior dev with out a degree in CS as its the only real means they have for comparison. I'm not saying this is fair but its the truth, but once you get to the higher level roles its all about relevant experience and proving to the interviewer that you will be a productive member of the team. So you will most likely be working for which ever company apprentices you for a few years while you get some experience under your belt, it might be a bit trickier to move company than if you had a degree but most good recruiters and IT companies should look past that after 3-4 years.

With regards to the training, I don't have direct experience with the companies that you've listed. But from working with former apprentices and the .net developer apprenticeship my wife was on, the training will most likely be the bare minimum for you to be an effective at the role they put you in. This can limit your career progression if you're not self motivated, but it will also give you a good start in the industry and once you get a better feel for what you enjoy, then you can start to look at doing some additional training and maybe even getting certified in a few technologies which will help if you want to move company in the future. The biggest negative point I've noticed from working with some former apprentices, is that the training is so relatively brief it often only addresses one way to solve a problem and doesn't teach the developer how to problem solve or about technologies outside the core platform. Its a bit like giving a new joiner a hammer and showing him how to nail two bits of wood together, technically they have been trained but there is so much more to it that they don't know and there is no way they could build you very much. Once you complete the training it's up to you to learn the rest which some people never do and as a result they never move past junior roles, others thrive and teach themselves more then any degree ever could once they know where to start.

No one can say what the work will be like in any of the companies you mentioned, it will very much depend on the team or project that you are placed on within them. You could be working on something new and cutting edge while someone a few desks away is stuck maintaining a buggy piece of legacy software, but that's the case with 90% of IT work.
 
Thanks both for the responses.

Malachi, I'll look into that. I'm fairly tight for time working 8-7pm currently but I'll try find some relevant resources even if I don't end up taking a formal exam.

Gambisk, thanks for all that info. My understanding of the apprenticeships is that as well as doing the degree I'll be getting relevant certifications along the way. That's certainly the case on the cyber security apprenticeships I've applied for. I can understand why a dedicated software company would want CS grads. Hopefully the degree, 4 years of experience in a reputable company and plenty of self development will stand me in good stead come the end of it. Most of these apprenticeships will guarantee a permanent job offer at the end of it and the ones that don't have good retention rates (80% according to the staff at companies I've interviewed for so far.) Would doing the degree apprenticeship at IBM be thought of well in the industry? (large software company, exposure to decent developers I'd imagine, finish with a degree)
 
Who awards the degree and do they provide some training/education or do they just provide the accreditation?

I mean at face value it sounds better than the suggestion of just doing some random vendor certificates yourself if you'll get a degree + work experience at a large well known firm etc...
 
Some are provided by BPP, Queen Mary's London, Exeter, Manchester Met. Those are the ones I can think of, there may be others but I'd say the majority are provided by BPP. The study/work balance is usually 2 days at university and 3 at the company. This may change to 1 and 4 after the first year. The lectures are mainly online with access to tutors and you're given support by your company also. Most of these programmes take 4 years to complete. These are the modules that BPP offer( in bold are the ones I'd probably chose now given the option);

Modules
Stage 1
Compulsory
  • Business and Information Systems (15 credits)
  • Professional Practice - Part 1 (15 credits)
  • Introduction to Programming (15 credits)
  • Maths for Computing (15 credits)
  • IS Security Foundations (15 credits)
  • Network Fundamentals (15 credits)
  • Marketing Principles (15 credits)
  • Project Management Fundamentals (15 credits)
Stage 2
Compulsory
  • Database Management (15 credits)
  • Systems Analysis and Design (15 credits)
  • IS Security and Risk Management (15 credits)
Elective
  • Professional Practice 2 (15 credits)
  • Business Analysis Practice (15 credits)
  • Service Management (15 credits)
  • Financial Decision Making for IT (15 credits)
  • Data Management and Analysis Practice (15 credits)
  • Object Oriented Programming (15 credits)
  • Computer Network Technologies (15 credits)
  • Network Management and Operations (15 credits)
  • Mobile Engineering (15 credits)
Stage 3
Compulsory
  • Legal Aspects of Information Technology (15 credits)
  • Agile Development (15 credits)
  • Professional Project (30 credits)
Elective
  • Consulting for Business (15 credits)
  • Designing and Delivering IT Change (15 credits)
  • Business and Big Data (15 credits)
  • Data Analytics and Social Media Monitoring (15 credits)
  • Cloud Computing (15 credits)
  • Network Security Analysis (15 credits)
  • Software Testing (15 credits)
  • Web Application Development (15 credits)
This was also mentioned (unsure if these are actually prestigious or not):

During the second and third terms of the programme apprentices can also choose elective modules which will help to prepare them for prestigious professional qualifications including:

  • Business Analysis Foundation Certificate (British Computer Society)
  • ITIL foundation level qualification
  • Cisco Certified Entry Networking Technician (CCENT)
  • Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA )
  • ISTQB® Foundation Level (CTFL)
 
Gambisk said:
So you will most likely be working for which ever company apprentices you for a few years while you get some experience under your belt, it might be a bit trickier to move company than if you had a degree but most good recruiters and IT companies should look past that after 3-4 years.
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He will have a degree - that's what a degree apprenticeship is.

Our college provides degree apprenticeships (awarded by Lancaster) and they are proving pretty popular this year.
 
Thanks for picking up on that amigafan, missed that when responding.

Most of the apprenticeships lead to a Bsc Digital and Technology Solutions.
 
Any former apprentices I've worked with didn't revive a formal degree as part of the apprenticeship and were only trained to the equivalent of a foundation degree. The course details you have listed took a lot more thorough than any of the ones I've experienced and would give you a really good start.
 
That's reassuring to hear. I'd like to think I'm curious and competitive enough to go on and learn more than what's offered via the uni courses.

Gambisk what's your work/life balance like working for a software company? Should I expect a typical 9-5/6 or is it similar to recruitments 8-7?
 
Most companies usually have a pretty good work life balance and 90% of the time everyone is home by 5/6 so long as all the work is going to plan. The overtime only comes when deadlines are approaching or if something goes horribly wrong in a production environment. I do 8:30 to 5 most days but only cause we are mandated to take a full hour for lunch otherwise i'd be away at 4:30 :) there are occasional days where we have to stay late to finish off a project but its no more that twice a year. My company is very engineer focused so they give the devs a lot of power and we have input into just about every step of the development process right up delivery. This is because everyone apart from the highest level of management is from an engineering background so understand that timelines can slip and therefore they don't foot the guys at the bottom with the overtime when something goes wrong. Some other companies I've worked in there is big disconnect between the management and engineering teams which is usually what leads to repetitive staying late or working weekends.

I think the UK in general, certainly N.Ireland, has a big developer shortage, so most companies really need to focus on Work life balance otherwise staff will just go somewhere that is doing it better.
 
Gambisk said:
Any former apprentices I've worked with didn't revive a formal degree as part of the apprenticeship and were only trained to the equivalent of a foundation degree. The course details you have listed took a lot more thorough than any of the ones I've experienced and would give you a really good start.
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You won't know any degree apprentices as they only started in 2015 so the earliest graduates will only start coming through this summer. Plus, hardly any courses ran in 2015/2016 as most institutions didn't get up to speed until September 2017, so 90% of degree apprentices are in thier first year.
 
I'm currently on track for a degree apprenticeship and it's a full BSc Hons degree. They're definitely the route to go these days.
 
Dellboy said:
Some are provided by BPP, Queen Mary's London, Exeter, Manchester Met. Those are the ones I can think of, there may be others but I'd say the majority are provided by BPP. The study/work balance is usually 2 days at university and 3 at the company.
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Well Exeter and Queen Mary's are decent enough universities. Given what you've said re: not being able to go to uni full time this seems like a no brainer if this is what you want to study... you're starting from no degree and a job you want to leave and are looking at a degree from a good university + 4 years paid work experience at the likes of JPMC, IBM, Santander etc.. etc.. That then changes your circumstances significantly compared to where you are now.

The courses look quite applied, but I guess this isn't necessarily a bad thing if your aim is not to pursue a MSc or PhD after but to work in a corporate IT role for one of those firms, it looks like pretty relevant and useful topics for that.
 
Delta3D said:
I'm currently on track for a degree apprenticeship and it's a full BSc Hons degree. They're definitely the route to go these days.
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How are you finding it delta? The only real negative I've seen online is that it can be challenging to balance work and uni loads but I'd imagine that's just a case of time management and being disciplined.
 
Gambisk said:
Most companies usually have a pretty good work life balance and 90% of the time everyone is home by 5/6 so long as all the work is going to plan. The overtime only comes when deadlines are approaching or if something goes horribly wrong in a production environment. I do 8:30 to 5 most days but only cause we are mandated to take a full hour for lunch otherwise i'd be away at 4:30 :) there are occasional days where we have to stay late to finish off a project but its no more that twice a year. My company is very engineer focused so they give the devs a lot of power and we have input into just about every step of the development process right up delivery. This is because everyone apart from the highest level of management is from an engineering background so understand that timelines can slip and therefore they don't foot the guys at the bottom with the overtime when something goes wrong. Some other companies I've worked in there is big disconnect between the management and engineering teams which is usually what leads to repetitive staying late or working weekends.

I think the UK in general, certainly N.Ireland, has a big developer shortage, so most companies really need to focus on Work life balance otherwise staff will just go somewhere that is doing it better.
Click to expand...

That's good to know, talking to recruiters who cover IT they're always saying how candidate lead the market is. I've got no problem with working late but it's nice to not have to do it daily. I'd probably look to complete the degree, get a couple more years of experience and then if the balance wasn't working I'd move on to a smaller company.
 
dowie said:
Well Exeter and Queen Mary's are decent enough universities. Given what you've said re: not being able to go to uni full time this seems like a no brainer if this is what you want to study... you're starting from no degree and a job you want to leave and are looking at a degree from a good university + 4 years paid work experience at the likes of JPMC, IBM, Santander etc.. etc.. That then changes your circumstances significantly compared to where you are now.

The courses look quite applied, but I guess this isn't necessarily a bad thing if your aim is not to pursue a MSc or PhD after but to work in a corporate IT role for one of those firms, it looks like pretty relevant and useful topics for that.
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Yeah that's the plan, I've had enough time to think about what interests me as previously I had no idea what I wanted a career in. Hopefully the course gives me a good base to push on from and in the future I could consider MSc once I'd been in the industry for a few years.
 
Yeah
Dellboy said:
Yeah that's the plan, I've had enough time to think about what interests me as previously I had no idea what I wanted a career in. Hopefully the course gives me a good base to push on from and in the future I could consider MSc once I'd been in the industry for a few years.
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Yeah, degree apprenticeships link up nicely with taught Masters, not so much research Masters. PhD progression is certainly possible, but you'd want to look at one that provides a good grounding in advanced research techniques on the first year.
 
Dellboy said:
How are you finding it delta? The only real negative I've seen online is that it can be challenging to balance work and uni loads but I'd imagine that's just a case of time management and being disciplined.
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Where I am we get scheduled Research & Dev days that we can take off to study without affecting our pay. It's a good incentive but obviously not all businesses will be up for it.
 
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