Terror Plot Foiled

cymatty said:
Wow some sense from someone in the government.
Yes, though the incredible naivity of the letter that the 'Muslim Community Leaders' sent was staggering. They need a history lesson:

'we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender'
 
gurdas said:
I just feel that anyone has the choice to live a certain lifestyle, just because it isn't the route you'd take doesn't devalue it.

No, I think you will find that there are many things we cannot do in our society Gurdas. I think you will find that for our every action there is an equal and opposite reaction from society.

I cannot blame you for being mistaken, becasue there used to be a trend in this country whereby whenever we discovered practices which we would find abhorrent in 'one of our own' we were told that we needed 'tolerance' if we discovered them in those that were not of 'our own kind'.

Not all ideologies are equal, and society encourages certain behaviours in ways it sees fit. Islam says that it is okay to kill homosexuals, is this valid?

It does make sense because a adopting aspects from a different culture doesn't equate to turning your back on anything. What exactly is he turning his back on? The queen?

You speak as if you were someone who isn't deeply invovled in their culture. I seriously doubt that your family would be happy if you were to become a Muslim. I think you have a very strong sense of culture and very easily understand what turning your back on your culture could involve.

You can argue that but I don't believe that to be the case, you could say british culture is very yobish and sexist. Just because he has converted doesn't mean he automatically becomes some sort of wife beater....that's not how 'culture' works. Culture is very diverse and I doubt anyone exists who just follows one type of culture.

I think you need to read the Koran my friend. If he doesn't want homosexuals to die he is not a good Muslim. I understand that the fact that he has converted doesn't mean he will kill homosexuals, but I do not believe there is something intrinsicly wrong with the man. I think there are some very wrong things about Islam, and that people such as the man in question are weak to need to attatch themselves to something in such a way.
 
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Sleepy said:
Yes, though the incredible naivity of the letter that the 'Muslim Community Leaders' sent was staggering. They need a history lesson:

'we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender'

The reaction of the government minster prompted me to start the thread in SC questioning whether the reaction of the media has changed...

Every Muslim speaker I have seen on BBC News has been grilled, although I have only seen Islamic Nationalists such as Iqbal Sacrine on there. It would be nice for a few of the decent, less vocal Muslims to get on there... not to make them accountable but just ask for an insider explanation of those that aren't into "Islam uber alles" Islamic Nationalism.
 
Things are beginning to unravel regarding the speed at which the police acted on Thursday morning:

LONDON: The arrest of brothers across continents and an intercepted call helped investigators foil the terrorist plot in Britain to blow up 10 US-bound airplanes using liquid explosives.

The unravelling of the plot began with the arrest of Rashid Rauf, a British citizen, near the Afghan border in Pakistan last week, following information from a mole planted by the British police, a former Pakistani official said.

Soon after the arrest, investigators in Karachi intercepted a call from Pakistan to Britain urging the plotters to go ahead with the plan. The message, decoded by British agents to mean “Do your attacks now”, led to raids in Britain and the arrest of 24 people believed to be part of the cells that would carry out the attack.

Police found tickets for a United Airlines flight for Wednesday, August 16, suggesting that was the day for the attack. At least one “martyrdom” tape was also found.

The plot called for attackers to assemble their bombs aboard the aircraft, with a peroxide-based solution disguised as a beverage or other harmless-seeming items, and using such electronic equipment like a disposable camera or a music player as detonator. Two attackers were to be deployed per plane and those involved did not know one another at all, a typical security of terror groups.
 
cymatty said:
Wow some sense from someone in the government.

Yes, he also made some valid points about the Lebanon crisis when he was there. Blair gave a speech recently over in the US that also implied the same kind of thing.
 
German Link to 9/11 bombers

Extract from Fox News article

Suspects in the alleged plot "apparently" had some contacts with Germany, August Hanning, a deputy interior minister, was quoted as telling the Bild am Sonntag newspaper in an article to be printed Sunday. The report did not give details on the timing or nature of the suspected contacts.

The German weekly Focus reported, without citing sources, that a suspect arrested in Britain had contact with Nese Bahaji, the wife of fugitive Sept. 11 suspect Said Bahaji. It did not specify the suspect involved or say when the contact occurred.

Said Bahaji, a German national, is believed to have provided logistical support for the Hamburg cell that included three of the Sept. 11 suicide pilots. Bahaji fled Germany shortly before the Sept. 11 attacks and remains at large.
 
Sleepy said:
With whats being leaked in the US and Pakistan makes me think that this wont turn out to be a Forest Gate debacle.

I can't help wondering if the forest gate incident is related in some way.
They went in looking for chemical compounds but did not find what they were looking for. Perhaps they were simply looking for the wrong things altogether, perhaps if they had been looking for the constituent parts instead then they would have come up trumps.
 
VIRII said:
I can't help wondering if the forest gate incident is related in some way.
They went in looking for chemical compounds but did not find what they were looking for. Perhaps they were simply looking for the wrong things altogether, perhaps if they had been looking for the constituent parts instead then they would have come up trumps.
Intersting theory. however if it were true then you'd have thought the police would have arrested the whole group whom they have had under surveillance for months.

At this time I think it was just a coincidence that Forest Gate was a chemical devie and that the new plot featured binary explosives.
 
Britain's Al-Qaeda leader seized

Pretty good summation of whats known, also adds new details. As with all things security/sub judice caveat emptor

Times

Britain's Al-Qaeda leader seized

SECURITY sources believe that a man arrested in last week’s anti- terror raids in Britain is Al-Qaeda’s leader in this country.

Home Office officials say that one of those arrested is suspected not only of masterminding the foiled plot to bring down up to nine transatlantic airliners, but also of involvement in other planned atrocities over the past few years.

They believe that he was instrumental in sending the ringleader of at least one previous British terror plot for training at a camp in Pakistan last year. He is described by counter-terrorist officials at MI5 as the senior figure in a British terror network involving Kashmiri, north African and Iraqi cells ...

At least two suspects escaped last Wednesday night’s police raids. Although they are not thought to be significant players, there remain concerns that they may now be galvanised into taking some form of unspecified action.

Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al-Qaeda’s deputy head, is said to have warned in a message placed on a restricted extremists’ website last month that the terrorist group was planning two large-scale attacks this autumn.

The FBI has assigned 200 agents to follow up any leads that come out of the British investigation. Security sources said that separate surveillance operations by police and MI5 were continuing into a variety of suspected plots by other terror cells.

These included plans, said to be in their early stages, to target ferry ports, the railway network and the London Underground. Police say they are also stepping up patrols at some mainline railway stations ...

Police sources claimed yesterday to have seized “high grade evidence” including chemicals, documents and a video during last week’s raids in east London, Birmingham and High Wycombe in Buckinghamshire.

They believe they have arrested “the ringleaders, the technical experts and the foot soldiers” behind the plot. “The leadership was very professional,” said a police source.

The investigation into the suspected Al-Qaeda leader in Britain and his UK associates was considered by Eliza Manningham-Buller, MI5’s director-general, to be the security service’s single most important line of inquiry.

He is suspected of being behind two “pipelines” which saw potential terrorist recruits being sent for training at camps in Pakistan and to join the “holy war” in Iraq.

The Al-Qaeda leader — who cannot be named for legal reasons— acts as a suspected hub in a network of extremist groups. These include Kashmiri and north African groups based in this country. He is linked to a second suspect also in Britain who has “played a major role in facilitating support for the Iraq jihad”.

A third associate is an Iraqi who came to Britain in 2004 and worked on providing support for British extremists who wanted to travel to Iraq to fight the “holy war”.

MI5 said he acquired weapons in preparation for an unspecified attack in Britain. He was detained in January last year pending deportation to Iraq.

The British leader’s suspected links with other Al-Qaeda figures in Pakistan have been the subject of intense MI5 scrutiny since last August.

It was the arrest of another associate in Pakistan last week that prematurely triggered Operation Overt, the counter-terrorist plan that is said to have foiled the transatlantic airliner plot.

Contrary to claims by the Pakistani government, the arrest was not anticipated in London. There were also conflicting reports about the reasons for the suspect’s arrest.

One Pakistani official said he had been under surveillance for several weeks following a tip-off from Britain. He was said to have been monitored visiting radical imams and seminaries that had been linked to terrorism. The official said he had travelled to some of the same places as Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, two of the July 7 bombers.

The origins of Operation Overt are said by some American officials to have begun in 2003. However, the full-scale inquiry is not thought to have been launched until last August when dozens of surveillance officers were assigned to monitor the British Al-Qaeda leader’s home.

A Pakistani official close to the intelligence services there was reported yesterday as saying that there may have been a British mole planted by the security services inside the terror cells in the UK.

Two of those arrested last week are said to have visited Pakistan in the months before the planned attacks. They are said to have met Matuir Rehman, an Al-Qaeda suspect and specialist in explosives.

After the two Britons returned to this country, they are believed to have received a wire transfer of money.

Pakistani authorities say the man arrested there last week had fled the West Midlands several years ago. He had received training in explosives at Al-Qaeda camps along the Afghan-Pakistan border and had organised Al-Qaeda funding for the organisation's leader in Britain.

One agent said he had been under surveillance for several weeks following a tip-off from British intelligence which had been following up several Pakistan-related leads from its investigation into last year’s July 7 bombings.

It was British detectives who uncovered the role of the man arrested in Pakistan last week and tipped off their Pakistani counterparts.
 
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Welsh muslims say aircraft bomb plot 'a fake'

Link

Welsh muslims say aircraft bomb plot 'a fake'

YOUNG Welsh Muslims have accused the Government of master-minding this week's plot to blow up transatlantic jets mid-air to justify Tony Blair's war on terror.

Some followers of Islam have claimed the arrest of more than 20 people on suspicion of scheming to kill thousands of passengers travelling to America using liquid explosives is designed to bolster the Prime Minister's flagging credibility over the Iraq and Lebanon-Israel crises.

Speaking to Wales On Sunday last night, members of the Cathays Dar-ul-Isra Muslim Community Centre in Cardiff said it was a ploy to reinforce Mr Blair's alliance with US President George W Bush, who waged war on Saddam Hussein on a discredited claim that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction.

"I believe this so-called plot is all a fabrication aimed at covering up the actions of George Bush and Tony Blair," said Abdul Ullah, 26. "Sadly, people will believe whatever they are told these days."

Dr Sam Ben, 29, added: "As far as I can make out, people have been arrested but none have been charged with anything or were caught at the scene of any crime. I believe the whole operation has been a smoke-screen."
Tin foil hats allround
 
Some followers of Islam have claimed the arrest of more than 20 people on suspicion of scheming to kill thousands of passengers travelling to America using liquid explosives is designed to bolster the Prime Minister's flagging credibility over the Iraq and Lebanon-Israel crises.
If anything, this alleged terror plot has had the complete opposite effect. Many believe that Iraq and the Lebanon-Israel crises are fueling these extremists, henceforth support for the country's involvement in these matters is probably waning in light of this terror plot.

Dr Sam Ben, 29, added: "As far as I can make out, people have been arrested but none have been charged with anything or were caught at the scene of any crime. I believe the whole operation has been a smoke-screen."
They haven't been charged because the police and intelligence services probably need time to investigate further before doing so. They haven't been caught at the scene of the crime? So he thinks it would be best if the security services let them continue with their plot, and only arrest them once they attempt to board the planes with explosives in their possession, just so one or to naive conspiracy theorists can feel confident they are indeed guilty? Of course if they did do this, the explosives will have been planted on them by MI5... :rolleyes:
 
Al Vallario said:
They haven't been charged because the police and intelligence services probably need time to investigate further before doing so. They haven't been caught at the scene of the crime? So he thinks it would be best if the security services let them continue with their plot, and only arrest them once they attempt to board the planes with explosives in their possession, just so one or to naive conspiracy theorists can feel confident they are indeed guilty? Of course if they did do this, the explosives will have been planted on them by MI5... :rolleyes:

The whole "not being charged" thing is a moot point anyway, if MI5 want you to be guilty of something then they'll make it happen, easily.

As for acting on at best spurious evidence before a crime is actually committed, didn't we have all this with Menezes?
 
@if ®afiq said:
If you've got a spare one I wouldn't mind borrowing it....I forgot to wear mine for the last biological attack that was foiled.....

I have one you can borrow, it's surplus to requirements after the whole "WMD" incident.
 
05-CT-3478.jpg

:D
 
There isn't anything remotely dodgy about these arrests so far.

However my tin foil hat is at the ready if they start telling us how we all need to carry ID cards to stop these kind of attacks.

Mine is a delux model:

mindHat.gif
 
Hero to Terrorist in 1 Year

ONE of the terror suspects detained in Britain last week over an alleged plot to bomb transatlantic flights was involved in helping victims of the July 7 bus and tube bombs in London last year.

Umar Islam, then a ticket inspector on London buses, helped search for bombs on other buses and assisted victims of the Tavistock Square bus bomb to safety.

The Sun newspaper reported that the actions of Islam, 28, a former Rastafarian who converted to Islam, had been "at dramatic odds" with allegations he was involved in the latest terror plot. "Immediately after the bombs, he was sent to Liverpool Street - which could easily have been another target area because it is in the financial district," the newspaper quoted a colleague as saying. "It was where buses were terminating and he joined others in checking under the seats for suspect packages. "He was briefed in evacuation and security procedures, and was making sure the public did not go where they shouldn't. Basically, he was helping to marshall the buses and trying to sort-out the chaos. Whatever his beliefs, he did a great job. He was certainly committed to what he was doing, you couldn't fault him at all. On that day he was trying to save lives, not destroy them."
 
Sleepy said:
ONE of the terror suspects detained in Britain last week over an alleged plot to bomb transatlantic flights was involved in helping victims of the July 7 bus and tube bombs in London last year.

Umar Islam, then a ticket inspector on London buses, helped search for bombs on other buses and assisted victims of the Tavistock Square bus bomb to safety.

The Sun newspaper reported that the actions of Islam, 28, a former Rastafarian who converted to Islam, had been "at dramatic odds" with allegations he was involved in the latest terror plot. "Immediately after the bombs, he was sent to Liverpool Street - which could easily have been another target area because it is in the financial district," the newspaper quoted a colleague as saying. "It was where buses were terminating and he joined others in checking under the seats for suspect packages. "He was briefed in evacuation and security procedures, and was making sure the public did not go where they shouldn't. Basically, he was helping to marshall the buses and trying to sort-out the chaos. Whatever his beliefs, he did a great job. He was certainly committed to what he was doing, you couldn't fault him at all. On that day he was trying to save lives, not destroy them."

Your finding some good articles Sleepy

What a bizzare turn of events, although I guess on the day you would just go along with it. Your hardly going to refuse to help, might look a bit suspicious.
 
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