Terrorists or something else...

[ElRazur]

you reap what you sew

in other words lets get out of Iraq and Afganistan and let the US play the world policeman where no longer a superpower or even a major power and its time we realised that.

we have no buiseness in these countrys lets get out and then we wont have terroist bombers in our country

Say what? I hope you dad and mum, brother, sister, or your whole family get involve in the next act of terror and they all suffer as a result of it, i hope then you can post your you reap what you sow post.

I am not gonna lay out the arguement for you, i will someone else do that. People died as a result so watch your comment.

 

[Roughneck]

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[ElRazur]

people died as a result of our politicians decisions.

btw Ill post what I want as long as its within the rules of these forums

you dont like my post dont repy

Yeah blame it on the politicians, i guess tony and george motivated them to blow up innocent citizens too. While you at it, blame the foreigners and ethnic minority....
Off course you can post what you want, unlike you i wont deny you that.

 

[Roughneck]

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[squiffy]

Yeah blame it on the politicians, i guess tony and george motivated them to blow up innocent citizens too. While you at it, blame the foreigners and ethnic minority....
Off course you can post what you want, unlike you i wont deny you that.

Politicians make decisions that can make civilians life miserable. We have been far from perfect...from the US supporting Isreal constantly, to destroying infastructure that community is building.

 

[Infidel]

The question therefore is should they be referred to as Terrorists or Criminals and would it have any affect on the battle for hearts and minds which ultimately is the only way they will stop? Or would it be viewed as propaganda and thus have a negative affect at combating these people?

Ultimately the only way to prevent terrorism to address its causes, such as state structual problems, which lead to inequalities, lack of political participation, state violence, occupation and the effective and willing leadership that inspires terrorism.

With regards to their hearts and minds, i dont think changing the label from terrorist to criminal will achieve much, terrorist methods unlike criminal, are designed to cause terror and will achieve this regardless of a label. Combine this with the fact that definitions of terrorism often identify a political or ideological purpose to it which also seperates terrorism from criminalism.

However the way we deal with terrorists here in the UK is to treat them as criminals using police, intelligence and legislation to deal with them. Internationally we tend to class terrorists as the enemy rather than criminals, using intelligence and the military to deal with them.

 

[fozzybear]

I suspect this is the first time that this picture is truly appropriate

lucasade1 was correctly stating that blaming terrorists attacks on us invading Iraq and Afghanistan is rubbish.

We nor the Americans were not in Iraq or Afghanistan before the 9-11 attacks were we. Roughneck, if only pulling our troops out was that simple.

 

[Borris]

The problem, as I see it, is that "terrorism" is used as an excuse to create redundant legislation (in that current legislation already exists to deal with the criminal acts) that is not subject to the same checks and balances.

Effectively, the legislature uses terror as a carte blanche to pass laws which can then be used to prosecute for blatantly non-terror related activities.

As soon as you attempt to decry the new laws, however, you brand yourself a terrorist sympathiser or soft-minded liberal patsy.

God knows you can only go so far to protect the ignorant and stupid from themselves.

 

[VIRII]

well you just backed up my other post

I said if we wasnt in iraq or afganistan then we wouldnt have any problems

you then quoted 2 incedents in Canada and the Netherlands (to give it its proper name )

both those incedents happend in the respective countrys and had nothing to due to events happening in iraq or afganistan.

Lost me then because your "point" appeared to be that we would not have Islamic extremeists in this country if we were not militarily active in Iraq / Afghanistan.
Yet lots of countrys who are not involved militarily are still suffering islamic extremeism.
So how that "backs up" your point I will never know, unless of course you actuallymean that we'd still suffer from these idiots regardless fo what we do because we allow them to live here.

p.s. It is probably a good idea to sort out all the crass grammatical and spelling errors in your own posts before you try to (give it its proper name) correct terminology in others

 

[VIRII]

The interpretation and application by a small number of power mad lunatics is where the fault is.

It is not a small number according to "question time" and "this week" both broadcast last night.
Both quoted figures of between 10% and 13% of British muslims feeling that the tube bombers are martyrs. Those are not small numbers.
I agree with you that religion is for the weak and the weaker you are the more deeply religion can infest your mind though.

As for whether Islam is at fault or the interpretation is at fault who am I to say, who are you to say. There are literally thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of Islamic scholars around the world who have had 1600 years to figure out precisely what Islam is supposed to intend and they still haven't agreed on it.
So if Islam is *NOT* at fault here then presumeably that is because you completely understand what it says and can teach the rest of the world the true way?
It could be that Islam is indeed a completely peaceful religion, if it is then why are so many muslims in disagreement as to what it actually asks of people? Why are they killing each other over minor disagreements in the text and meaning? Why have their "cultural" beliefs been allowed to compeltely overshadow the "message"? Is the message actually really weak and faint?

 

[oxist258]

I might have misinterpreted the original post, but I thought this was a thread on whether terrorists are criminals... not another rehash of whether we should have gone into Iraq etc?

Off to work now, but will think about the criminal thing a bit later on...

 

[VIRII]

people died as a result of our politicians decisions.

btw Ill post what I want as long as its within the rules of these forums

you dont like my post dont repy

That is cobblers. People died because some twisted "british" muslims strapped bombs to themselves because they believed that they were doing the work of God and that God was going to reward them for it.

What you do appear to be saying is that either the UK does what the islamic community approve of or they'll bomb us. In other words you wish to bow down to terrorism?

Presumeably if BNP numbers rise significantly and there is a violent uprising against muslims to the extent that they are being beaten and brutalised in this country then you'll say that "muslims are dying because of Islam" and not because of racist attacks..........

 

[Bar]

Will reply fully in a minute as I am eating lunch but I would like to point out that I do not view people who are religious as weak minded.

Will clarify with an edit - think you have picked up wrongly from what I was saying.

 

[Raikiri]

Roughneck, just to reiterate on your 'point'... you say that the terrorist attacks (9/11 included) were direct reactions to the involvement of our governments so how do the attacks on unrelated countries reinforce your somewhat ridiculous opinion?

 

[VIRII]

Will reply fully in a minute as I am eating lunch but I would like to point out that I do not view people who are religious as weak minded.

Will clarify with an edit - think you have picked up wrongly from what I was saying.

Not really. You posted this:

People turn to religion as they feel there is something missing in their lives. Nothing wrong with this at all. The greater the feeling the more prone they are to following an extremist way.

You clarified in the above that you did not see anything wrong with "turning to religion" to make up for "something missing in their lives".
I see people being prone to becoming extremeist as being weak though. You don't.

 

[Bar]

I agree with you that religion is for the weak and the weaker you are the more deeply religion can infest your mind though.

what I posted was

People turn to religion as they feel there is something missing in their lives. Nothing wrong with this at all. The greater the feeling the more prone they are to following an extremist way.

I can see how it has been misunderstood as it lends itself to what you thought I meant.

Faith fills a gap. That gap is not as a result of being weak minded, it just simply exists in most people. I have never found anyone completely and totally content in believeing in themself.

The danger is when they have nothing to believe in at all. The gap is no longer a gap but a gaping hole that leads to desperation. This is were extremists get their opportunity to corrupt.

10-13% of muslims believe martyrdom is ok. Sadly I can believe that and I would refer back to my point 1) in that post where I state these people should be removed from this country as it is in direct conflict to our collective beliefs (religious or otherwise).

People died as some power crazy lunatics decided to brain wash vulnerable muslims who were sent to a place they should never have been sent. This does not remove the blame from them - they are still responsible for what they did. But merely highlights the fact that their parents and the lunatics are equally responsible.

It is at this point that I am in conflict with myself. The environment should not exist such that people feel the need to send their children away for moral guidance to protect them from the wrongs of society. That applies across the board. But when those wrongs are perceived to be wrong by a "foreign" religion and culture then those people should not have chosen to come here in the first place.

 

[Bar]

VIRII - see post above.

Just to point out I believe in God as I feel that he fills a gap within me. I would not count myself as weak minded.

I still know the difference between right and wrong but I still have a base desire for faith.

 

[VIRII]

VIRII - see post above.

Just to point out I believe in God as I feel that he fills a gap within me. I would not count myself as weak minded.

I still know the difference between right and wrong but I still have a base desire for faith.

Believing in God is one thing. Faith is one thing. No-one can prove that God doesn't exist or explain some pretty fundamental questions about ourelves and the universe. There is certainly room for God to exist.

Strictly following the dogma of a religion such as Catholicism or Islam is quite another. Believing that God spoke to just a couple of people and entrusted them to write it all down (after they were long dead) and assuming that we should strictly follow those ancient words is quite another.

Believing that the message of for example Jesus (love, trust, forgiveness) is a good basis for living your life and that those are attributes to aspire to is fine.
You don't even have to believe in God or be a Christian to do that. It is when religion comes into it with its dogma and BS that the problems start.

 

[Bar]

It is when religion comes into it with its dogma and BS that the problems start.

Agree completely. As I said it should be viewed as guidelines nothing more - God blessed us with common sense (well most of us anyway) - not as a prescribed set of rules that must be followed to the nth degree.

Was the intention of Mohammed that what was written in his name to be followed to the letter or was he trying to provide guidelines for people to become better.

Religion is harmless - its only when people get involved that it becomes a dangerous weapon. Just like a gun.

 

[Roughneck]

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