Testing related to work (ex. OFSTED, interviews, etc.)

[Pottsey]

It has been a while but when I was in school I feel like they were in for the whole week. Was that changed at some point?

It has changed from the past. Much less preparation time and shorter inspections with extra inspectors on site based on site size to keep classroom inspections down to 2 days.

There are different kinds of inspections. The general inspection these days seems to be 1 or 2 days preparation, 2 days inspectors in classrooms, last day behind the scenes, SLT, reports. Very often Classroom staff have nothing to do with the inspections on the last day so for them it feels shorter. Classroom staff are often not told until late and have nothing to do with the last day so for them it often feels like 2 days inspection and 1 day prep.

 

[dowie]

My issue with Ofsted is that they always come with a preset agenda in my experience and then look for "evidence" to back up their assumptions. You can easily make any school Outstanding or Inadequate if you wanted to, very easily. They are often also only in for 2 days so how can you understand the school and the pupils and staff in that time?

It's not a one off though like they come back periodically. Is it practical for them to spend 2 weeks instead of 2 days and are they really going to gain much from that if it's already clear on day 1 that there are serious issues?

I think the report card idea potentially sounds good, rather than having a single rating.

Whether or not Ofsted are inspecting the right things, they should be polite, professional and fair.

This does not seem to have been the case with the inspection that Ruth Perry was connected to.

What are you basing that on?

 

[sidimmu]

What are you basing that on?

Probably personal and friend/family experience like most would in this example.
It's where my experience with them arrives from.

As stated, most are probably lovely and professional, but it's the ones who think they are judge dredd caused this issue and don't deserve to be in post.

 

[PlacidCasual]

@dowie

I'm seeing a strange OP with some stuff about females in the legal profession followed by an Ofsted related thread. Is that a mis-post?

 

[cheesefest]

I remember when OFSTED came to my school. The atmosphere was horrible for students too.

School rules became stricter and had to work in silence. Plus other things.

 

[dowie]

Probably personal and friend/family experience like most would in this example.
It's where my experience with them arrives from.

I wasn't asking about personal experience with them but rather about how they were in the case of the former head teacher.

@dowie

I'm seeing a strange OP with some stuff about females in the legal profession followed by an Ofsted related thread. Is that a mis-post?

No, perhaps read it again, I'm referring to the comments re: objectivity, rules etc.. and the subsequent story of a head teacher who wanted to refuse permission to Ofsted.

 

[Kyle009]

It's not a one off though like they come back periodically. Is it practical for them to spend 2 weeks instead of 2 days and are they really going to gain much from that if it's already clear on day 1 that there are serious issues?

How do you judge teaching quality if you're in 5 lessons (often first day is only for observations of teaching). You won't be able to see all subjects, all teachers so the snapshot will be inaccurate. In our last Ofsted we had 3 inspectors that observed teaching on a Monday lesson 1 to 4. To maximise the amount of teachers they saw (we have over 80 teachers) they spent 20 minutes in a lesson.

Do you think they can get a fair assessment of the quality of teaching in 20 minutes? Staff in schools will have bad lessons, kids will misbehave; if that is seen in that 20 minute snapshot then that might be the school finished.

 

[adam cool dude]

This is what happens when decades of failed governments put all their eggs in the financial segment. Short term gain but a long term collapse of the basic needs of a functioning country.

None of the really educated people are doing these jobs anymore when they can make easy money in finance. When I go to my daughters parents evening I am appalled at the level really. Even my countryside middle of the road secondary was full of Dr's etc. Now they basically have NVQ's. The head teacher has a background in finance and nothing to do with schooling. I end up teaching my daughter 1-1 with CGP books for her GCSE revision because her teachers are incapable. I never needed any of that and still came out with A's in Maths in Science because I had good qualified teachers. My school wasn't oversubscribed either due to mass immigration of the area.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I liken an Ofsted inspection to an MOT for a car. If your car has been maintained and is running well it should sail through the MOT. Same with a school. Do what you're supposed to do and the inspection will confirm you're good.

That said, I would change the system and offer a wider range of grades for each area (as mentioned above) rather than just 1 headline grabbing grade.

My OH’s JMI school went through 2 of these whilst she worked there and I would say that the Ofsted inspection was more akin to an ISO 9001 audit.

They wanted to see documented processes in place and that all staff knew said processes and were following them. That the processes in place were unfit for purpose seemed to be of little concern.

If you want to see a totally political tickbox exercise, I suggest watching a CQC inspection where the inspecting team are mates of organisation being inspected. Best observed from upwind if you don’t have a strong stomach.

 

[dowie]

How do you judge teaching quality if you're in 5 lessons (often first day is only for observations of teaching). You won't be able to see all subjects, all teachers so the snapshot will be inaccurate. In our last Ofsted we had 3 inspectors that observed teaching on a Monday lesson 1 to 4. To maximise the amount of teachers they saw (we have over 80 teachers) they spent 20 minutes in a lesson.

Do you think they can get a fair assessment of the quality of teaching in 20 minutes? Staff in schools will have bad lessons, kids will misbehave; if that is seen in that 20 minute snapshot then that might be the school finished.

So should they come for say 2 weeks rather than 2 days? How long should they come for and if they stayed for longer would that address your concerns about OFSTED having a preset agenda they then look for evidence to support?

In this case though it isn't the teaching that was the issue:

https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50211729

They note issues with attendance, supervision during break times and safeguarding which seems to be a failure of both the school management and the governors:

Leaders have a weak understanding of safeguarding requirements and procedures. They have not exercised sufficient leadership or oversight of this important work. As a result, records of safeguarding concerns and the tracking of subsequent actions are poor. Leaders have not ensured that all required employment checks are complete for some staff employed at the school. These weaknesses pose potential risks to pupils. Some staff have not had the necessary training to be able to record concerns accurately using the school’s online system.

I'm not sure that necessarily tallies with claims they're finding evidence to meet some present agenda, they've been complimentary of other aspects of the school and surely some of these concerns would be based on objective facts like are the records there, are these issues being reported and tracked as they should be etc. This seems to be someone who has failed in some aspect of their statutory responsibilities and sadly has ended up taking their life.

Anyway, it seems the current head teacher, after all the stunning and brave posturing on Twitter, relented and did let the inspectors in after all.

 

[dlockers]

On the flip side if they get Outstanding they often aren't rechecked for absolutely yonks. So there is work to be done in not just focusing on the underperforming, as lots of outstanding schools could be train wrecks by now.

 

[dowie]

On the flip side if they get Outstanding they often aren't rechecked for absolutely yonks. So there is work to be done in not just focusing on the underperforming, as lots of outstanding schools could be train wrecks by now.

That appears to be basically what has happened in this case... school was outstanding in 2009 and then not inspected for ages.

 

[Kyle009]

So should they come for say 2 weeks rather than 2 days? How long should they come for and if they stayed for longer would that address your concerns about OFSTED having a preset agenda they then look for evidence to support?

In this case though it isn't the teaching that was the issue:

https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50211729

They note issues with attendance, supervision during break times and safeguarding which seems to be a failure of both the school management and the governors:



I'm not sure that necessarily tallies with claims they're finding evidence to meet some present agenda, they've been complimentary of other aspects of the school and surely some of these concerns would be based on objective facts like are the records there, are these issues being reported and tracked as they should be etc. This seems to be someone who has failed in some aspect of their statutory responsibilities and sadly has ended up taking their life.

Anyway, it seems the current head teacher, after all the stunning and brave posturing on Twitter, relented and did let the inspectors in after all.

I don't think a 2 week inspection would make things better for the students and teachers but it might actually provide a better idea of how the school operates. You didn't answer my question though, do you think you could make a sufficient judgment to a teachers quality within a 20 minute window?

I'm not saying in this case they have come in with a preset agenda, just that it does happen.

I also think you have got your wires crossed. The head that was refusing to let Ofsted in was from a completely different school. The school where the lady took her life does not currently have a head teacher, there are 2 acting heads in place, and Ofsted would not revisit a school this quickly.

 

[dlockers]

The same point applies. What can you do in 20 mins you can't do in 2 days or 2 weeks. There is no perfect system but extending it from a 2 day inspection to a 10 day inspection is just as arbitrary as reducing it to 20 mins.

I mean we could employ Alexa's and AI and track in real time 24x7....

 

[Kyle009]

The same point applies. What can you do in 20 mins you can't do in 2 days or 2 weeks. There is no perfect system but extending it from a 2 day inspection to a 10 day inspection is just as arbitrary as reducing it to 20 mins.

I mean we could employ Alexa's and AI and track in real time 24x7....

What would you track to be able to evaluate a good lesson?

 

[tom_nieto]

I’m confused as to how you’ve connected the tweets highlighting increased female enrolment in US law schools to a UK teacher’s suicide from a negative Ofsted inspection.

 

[dlockers]

What would you track to be able to evaluate a good lesson?

Attractive of teacher. Only takes a 20min glance.

 

[sidimmu]

Attractive of teacher. Only takes a 20min glance.

classy.
Not like we are discussing the fact a teacher has killed themselves over BS rules and politics of the system.

 

[dlockers]

classy.
Not like we are discussing the fact a teacher has killed themselves over BS rules and politics of the system.

This isn't SC; report my post if you are upset.

 

[dowie]

I don't think a 2 week inspection would make things better for the students and teachers but it might actually provide a better idea of how the school operates. You didn't answer my question though, do you think you could make a sufficient judgment to a teachers quality within a 20 minute window?

I've got no opinion on that tbh.

I also think you have got your wires crossed. The head that was refusing to let Ofsted in was from a completely different school. The school where the lady took her life does not currently have a head teacher, there are 2 acting heads in place, and Ofsted would not revisit a school this quickly.

Yes, I have muddled that and that's even more bizarre, it's just some grandstanding in general then re: Ofsted. Though I understand a school deemed inadequate, as that other one was, is liable to be inspected more frequently.