• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Testing used gpus

ukbilleh

ukbilleh

ukbilleh

Associate
Joined
17 Oct 2007
Posts
347
Back story:
I build used gaming rigs on the side from used parts. I sold a guy a machine and he reported artifacting issues with it in games. Games would crash, hang, stutter, artifact etc.
He was pretty decent and supplied various videos of it failing, I tried some things over video call with him and had some success but eventually the problem returned.
Since I'm not out to do people out of their hard earned cash I replaced the whole machine and took the faulty one back. I suspected GPU like most probably would so was interested to confirm it.

The Hardware:
Zotac GTX 1080ti AMP! Extreme Core Edition
7700k, 16GB, MSI B250 (original 'faulty' machine)
8700k, 16GB, Gigabyte Z370 (my test rig not my personal gaming rig)
Corsair RM1000x (test psu I use)

When I originally purchased the card:
The gpu is a Zotac GTX 1080ti AMP! Extreme Core Edition. I tested it at the buyers address using Furmark till it reached its max temp during the test and monitored it for a few minutes followed by a few runs of superposition. It had no issues. I paid + left.

Back to testing today:
Back with the faulty card/machine (7700k, 16GB, MSI B250).
Fresh install of windows / drivers / BIOS update etc, start testing the card.
Furmark passes without any issues.
Superposition passes without issues.
I'm wondering how to replicate the issues he showed me.
Unigene heaven is where the issues start.
1min into loop (not benching) exhibits the same issues, artifacts, stuttering, momentary black screens and the application eventually crashes to the desktop.
I swap to a known good Corsair RM1000x psu and the problem persists.
Swap the card to another machine (8700k, 16GB, Gigabyte Z370) and the problem persists.
Swap the 1080ti for a 1070 to cross reference and the problem is gone heaven runs fine continuously.

So I'm 99.9% the 1080ti is faulty.

Video of heaven benchmark failing (1min onwards for the gore):
https://streamable.com/amygs

Videos, pictures I was sent of the issues:
https://streamable.com/wte6o
https://ibb.co/mztDRFb
https://ibb.co/HXzfQ2K

Questions:
Why is the card not failing in Superposition or Valley or OCCT but failing in Heaven?
What is different with heaven vs all the other unigene benchmarks?
Why is Furmark not failing? (I've always assumed Furmark to be brutal and most likely to exhibit errors)
Have I just been lucky all along? I've built many many machines. Have I unknowingly omitted crucial testing when purchasing used GPUs?
Is this card even faulty? (you know when you've been testing something strange for so long you don't even know what your name is any longer... I think that's where I am)


Just looking for thoughts on it all as I'm sat here watching Valley benchmark pass loop after loop at ultra settings with no issues and that 0.01% of doubt is creeping in telling me the card is fine but obviously something is wrong as heaven is exhibiting all the signs of a faulty gpu.

Edit:
I've just found this. I shall do some testing.
heaven is not a tough benchmark. The GPU will consume far less power then in other benchmarks or the games you tested. less power consumption also means that your gpu runs colder. both will allow the GPU to clock higher than usual, thats why it crashes.

solve this problem by overclocking via the curve editor in MSI Afterburner. this way you can forbid the gpu to clock very high like it is happening in heaven benchmark.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
buying used parts is risky. to then sell on to other people is IMO stupid.

also are you declaring all the income from these sales for Self Assessment purposes as you are doing this to gain income and it's not you simply selling on your old parts?

I don't see how it would be profitable if you are.

Unless you are selling these as "NEW" computers rather than used.
 
Imo for stability you want to test in a proper stressing DX12 game. Shadow of the Tomb Raider has a free trial, but if you have it Ashes of the Singularity is really a good choice too.
 
In the short term you could try downclocking the memory as with artifacting it normally suggests memory errors. Long term you will need to contact Zotac and get them to repair/replace the card.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
buying used parts is risky. to then sell on to other people is IMO stupid.

also are you declaring all the income from these sales for Self Assessment purposes as you are doing this to gain income and it's not you simply selling on your old parts?

I don't see how it would be profitable if you are.

Unless you are selling these as "NEW" computers rather than used.
Click to expand...
Well you’re welcome to your opinion but I’m here purely from a technical aspect. I’m very open and honest with all my sales and my personal finances are none of your business.
 
Freddie1980 said:
In the short term you could try downclocking the memory as with artifacting it normally suggests memory errors. Long term you will need to contact Zotac and get them to repair/replace the card.
Click to expand...
Yep very close to what I ended up figuring out. I’ve just finished a 3 hour loop in heaven without any instability / crashes / artifacts. Looks like the core is just continually clocking itself higher and higher then the problems start. I locked out the max boost/oc on the core to 1900 in afterburner and it’s been fine since.
Luckily still in contact with the original owner and he’s happy to RMA so definitely going down that route. I think the card is out of warranty Dec 2019.
Oh well problem solved. Thanks to those who offered advice.
 
Poneros said:
Imo for stability you want to test in a proper stressing DX12 game. Shadow of the Tomb Raider has a free trial, but if you have it Ashes of the Singularity is really a good choice too.
Click to expand...
Yea thanks for the tip. Weirdly in this card the less stressful application appears to be allowing the card to keep cool whilst boosting its core to frequencies it can’t handle. I’ll have a look at singularity later. Cheers
 
Psycho Sonny said:
actually it is my business if you are robbing taxpayers money
Click to expand...
Wow, quite an accusation based no evidence. I don’t see any validity in your claim and have no interest in it. As I said my personal finances are my business so you’re welcome to kindly keep your nose out of it. If you feel there is anything illegal or untoward here I’m sure you’ll be motivated to pursue said presumptions via the correct legal channels as a technical forum about graphics cards really isn’t the appropriate forum for such a discussion but it appears that’s lost on you. I’ll be honoured to be a part of your investigation.
 
ukbilleh said:
Wow, quite an accusation based no evidence. I don’t see any validity in your claim and have no interest in it. As I said my personal finances are my business so you’re welcome to kindly keep your nose out of it. If you feel there is anything illegal or untoward here I’m sure you’ll be motivated to pursue said presumptions via the correct legal channels as a technical forum about graphics cards really isn’t the appropriate forum for such a discussion but it appears that’s lost on you. I’ll be honoured to be a part of your investigation.
Click to expand...

the fact you came here to ask for advice for a "side business" shows you are hardly the professional that you claim to be. you are doing this for profit to make money. therefore it's only right you should be doing it all above board. the fact you haven't confirmed it is all above board yet decided to side step makes it even more interesting.

i know the second hand market well. and second hand machines are pretty much worthless. so it's hard to see how anyone could turn a decent enough profit to make it worthwhile without doing it fraudulently. especially when none of the parts you buy have any warranty. all it takes is 1 duff GPU like the above and your profit for several pc's has vanished.

also your failure to confirm you are legit makes it harder for legitimate business's to compete with those with no morals.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
the fact you came here to ask for advice for a "side business" shows you are hardly the professional that you claim to be. you are doing this for profit to make money. therefore it's only right you should be doing it all above board. the fact you haven't confirmed it is all above board yet decided to side step makes it even more interesting.

i know the second hand market well. and second hand machines are pretty much worthless. so it's hard to see how anyone could turn a decent enough profit to make it worthwhile without doing it fraudulently. especially when none of the parts you buy have any warranty. all it takes is 1 duff GPU like the above and your profit for several pc's has vanished.

also your failure to confirm you are legit makes it harder for legitimate business's to compete with those with no morals.
Click to expand...
Well good for you pal. Carry on the good fight or whatever crusade you appear to be on. Just chill on the wild accusations and I’ll continue building worthless machines.

Edit: in the absolute nicest possible way you are of no authority to me, so I therefore have nothing to confirm with you as it is none of your business. As said this really isn’t the place for you to achieve whatever it is you’re trying to achieve. You’re welcome to continue whatever you want via the correct channels. I’m sure it’ll be thoroughly entertaining and I’ll certainly be along for the ride.
 
Last edited:
Thekwango said:
clearly you don't dude

not always - take a gander at some of the prices of pc's on ebay/gumtree

not necessarily the case
Click to expand...

I'm trying to sell a pc just now. Ebay prices all my components at £850. Best offer on gumtree so far £300.

A £550 discrepancy. I can't be bothered pulling it apart but looks like my hand is being forced. Sure I'd take £150 less at a push but not £550. I'd rather spend the hour or two taking it apart.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
I'm trying to sell a pc just now. Ebay prices all my components at £850. Best offer on gumtree so far £300.

A £550 discrepancy. I can't be bothered pulling it apart but looks like my hand is being forced. Sure I'd take £150 less at a push but not £550. I'd rather spend the hour or two taking it apart.
Click to expand...
your 'marketing' skills are letting you down :p

i see plenty of 'refurbished' pc's going for daft money - especially on facebook market place (or whatever it's called) you want to be aiming at the less tech knowledgeable. i know someone making a rather decent (relatively speaking) side income/beer tokens building bespoke 2nd hand pc's for folk. similar to the op, he sources used parts at the right price bungs it all together and makes himself a few quid. it's more a hobby than anything but perfectly doable if you've the free time, especially in the current market where NV think a top end gpu is worth a grand +
 
ukbilleh said:
Questions:
Why is the card not failing in Superposition or Valley or OCCT but failing in Heaven?
Click to expand...

The error could be triggered in a step-up in voltage/clock-speed when using a specific vram address range.

what I would do first would be to test every single vram address range on the card using Video Memory Stress test by Misha Cherkes.

Once that is done then you know where you stand with the vram on the card.

It is entirely possible that Heaven is hitting the problematic address range every single time and the other tools are not.

Need to remember that even with some benchmarks, they may only hit 6GB of the 11GB total address range on a 1080ti.
 
Thekwango said:
your 'marketing' skills are letting you down :p

i see plenty of 'refurbished' pc's going for daft money - especially on facebook market place (or whatever it's called) you want to be aiming at the less tech knowledgeable. i know someone making a rather decent (relatively speaking) side income/beer tokens building bespoke 2nd hand pc's for folk. similar to the op, he sources used parts at the right price bungs it all together and makes himself a few quid. it's more a hobby than anything but perfectly doable if you've the free time, especially in the current market where NV think a top end gpu is worth a grand +
Click to expand...

i don't see how as parts individually sell for more than when priced in a bundle. so selling as a whole pc is usually the worse way to get more money.
 
Besty said:
The error could be triggered in a step-up in voltage/clock-speed when using a specific vram address range.

what I would do first would be to test every single vram address range on the card using Video Memory Stress test by Misha Cherkes.

Once that is done then you know where you stand with the vram on the card.

It is entirely possible that Heaven is hitting the problematic address range every single time and the other tools are not.

Need to remember that even with some benchmarks, they may only hit 6GB of the 11GB total address range on a 1080ti.
Click to expand...
Yea this was absolutely my first though before I started troubleshooting. Looks like it the boost on the core climbing too high. If I limit it to 1900 the card is perfectly stable and has no issues. Did a 3-4 hour loop in heaven with no issues with the core boost locked out @ 1900. Moment I return it to defaults, crashes in around 1-2 minutes. Thanks for the thoughts tho.
 
ukbilleh said:
Yea this was absolutely my first though before I started troubleshooting. Looks like it the boost on the core climbing too high. If I limit it to 1900 the card is perfectly stable and has no issues. Did a 3-4 hour loop in heaven with no issues with the core boost locked out @ 1900. Moment I return it to defaults, crashes in around 1-2 minutes. Thanks for the thoughts tho.
Click to expand...

if the vram is 100% i would remove the cooler and re-apply thermal paste and pads to the gpu and vram chips.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom