Texture pop, poor draw distance, AA, LOD and tessellation, shadow flashing

[slim01]

Above sound familiar at all? don't even know where to start with this one...

-Went from a 3070 (FHR)+r5 3060
to
(updated mobo bios)
-3080ti fe +r7 5800x
-Installed crucial p5 ssd (nvme)
to
-3070ti fe.

Something has happened in that upgrade path, as now I've been getting horrible texture pop ins, draw distances and shadow glitches across multiple games (below). All 6 games tested have glitches.
I only played horizon on the 3080ti for 30+ hrs, and only noticed the odd bit of bad texture pop once or twice. Now I find it every 10mins. Could 3070ti be bad?
**edit also rarely get a massive fps drop in horizon. 60fps constant drops to like 25-35 for 3 secs then back to normal. Happens every hour or so.


Details:
Poor draw distances and texture pop in whilst moving ...
-Horizon zero dawn : individual bush's, textures on rocks like moss and snow patterns pop in/out in some areas, grass AA looks very fuzzy and also grass is very thinly built after about 20-30 metres, at the point where its detail draws/pops in).
-Mechwarrior 5: about 5% of the ground rocks pop in at 20-30 metres also.
-Comanche: basically every tree pops into view at around 400metres.

Shakey low fps like mini map/compass in...
-All 3 games with mini-map/compass
(was the same on 3080ti in horizon),+ Comanche, Mech 5.

Flashing Shadows...
-Commanche: REALLY bad shadows, almost all of them constantly pop in and out whilst moving, some shimmer without moving, tree shadows constantly flash.
-Horizon: shadows around the stalactites (could be textures) are a very odd colour and pop in and out of normal/blue at around 5 metres in one cave.
-Man Eater: some shadows (not all shimmer as they move and are very made of massive pixels.



Potential issues...
(yes, **worst build I've done)
-spilt a bit of kyronaut paste into cpu socket but thought cleaned up nicely.
-I did have to YANK a 3080ti out of the pcie socket (snapping the retention clip of mobo). There was some bending on the mobo and also dropped a screwdriver on mobo trying to open clip.

Also...
-something hot in pc (46-53c idle), mobo fan idles around 2000rpm and often goes up to +3000rpm.


**what I've tried so far as of 12/11/2021**
-RE-installing newest 3070ti drivers in safe mode after using DDU.
-tried 10+ games across different SSD's. All inhibit some issues.
-"trc" changed "bank cycle time" from 75 to 58 as per jdec specs (all others to xmp).
-tried 3070ti in both pcie slots.
-updated chipset drivers (I was on stock).
-replaced with a gigabyte 3080.
-loaded optimised defaults in BIOS, note: left ram on stock from here.
-fiddled with most display settings in nvidia control panel.
Then...
-disconnected everything (USB 3.0, sound card, all fans ALL old SSD's), left memory in as can't access easy.
-fresh copy of Windows 10, on a brand new ssd.
-did win10 updates,
-installed newest gpu driver (ddu+safe mode).
-loaded Horizon, still looks bad.
-Tried last know working gpu driver (same one I would have used on rtx3070 (June 2021) using DDU + safe mode.
-tried all psu cables in different ports.
-different sata and pcie power cables.
-tried powering pc from different wall socket, room, and also a mains filtering extension.
-plugged gpu into a work monitor with DisplayPort (instead of usual hdmi).
-cleared CMOS.
-48 passes (all) of memtest (default clocks)
-tried praying to the PC gods....

Next steps?
-Try ram in diff slots.
-Try 3080 and ram in new system when it arrives(3700x, a used replacement x570-p, seasonic 850w and the ssd I got before).
-Re-inspect cpu/socket for excess TIM.

Specs...
R7 5800x
Asus x570-p
32gb Vengeance 3200mhz
Evga p2 850w
TV - Panasonic 120hz 4k hdr TV


Any ideas guys? Is it likely hardware or software?

 

[slim01]

Is the screen ok in other uses? Ruling out a screen issue

5800x runs warm but nothing to be concerned about. Well within spec.

I'm hazarding a guess the PCIe slot is damaged and trace connections aren't right. Could be wrong though.

Screen seems fine. No other issues.

Slot is a good shout, it was a hell of a tug (was very scary with a £1400 value gpu for sure I was sweating!).
I'll try a diff pcie slot. Annoying as that'll be right up against my psu and will get no air from above but may rule the mobo as the issue good shout.

Yeah those temps aren't the cpu, it's something else. I'm guessing it's whatever is under the mobo fan (northbridge?). Only noticed the noise of the fan since I updated mobo bios to accommodate the 5800 series.

 

[slim01]

It is the chipset under the fan on X570 mobos. Current AMD chips have the memory controller on the die so does not have what we would consider a seperate Northbridge. I have Asus Prime X570-pro mobo and I would guess it has identical chipset fan to yours and I never really hear it but I do have old ears.

Just some clarification. Did you have any of the issues when you were using the 3080ti or is it just an issue since you put the 3070ti in the pc ? Like said above , trying in a different pci slot is a good place to start....or test the gpu in another system if you have one or use a different gpu in that system if you have one.

Edit- I would say do not manually mess around with the memory setting at this time. Either run at stock 2133mhz while you are testing or just use the DOCP settings. In BIOS look under AI Tweaker and in the DOCP drop down just choose DOCP.

Yeah using DOCP settings, just weird I never notice that higher trc timing being off (don't even know what it is tbh).

Well on the 3080ti I played horizon for around 30-40hrs on the 3080ti, its the only game I played on it and I don't recall seeing hardly any glitches... Maybe one or two similar issues.
However now I've gone back to the start of the game and seeing these issues pretty much every 10-20mins of running around.
I'm sure I would have noticed it before, not something I have to even look for it's quite distracting when textures pop in and out even if its not in the exact area you're looking at.

Will try in diff pcie slot later. Don't have another gpu unfortunately.
Will also try memory at 2444mhz.
And remove the eco setting on ryzen master (although that was on when I had 3080ti as cpu was reaching like 80c in windows doing basically nothing before.

As mentioned the mobo did take a beating (screw driver drop, and the bending from pulling out the gpu.


You rekkon thermal paste in the socket could cause the issue? Not sure how better I could clean it... I wiped with alcohol swap wipes.

Any nvidia/windows settings you'd check?

 

[slim01]

Thanks for help BTW

 

[slim01]

Ok so I've tried gpu in different slot, issues remain. Memory tried at 2444mhz as well.

Texture pop is definitely hinting to GPU/driver issue.
Those are used from graphics card's memory and not constantly accessed over PCIe.

Draw distance would similarly fit to at least driver not working.
Same for that "shadow flashing".


If there were broken traces into slot, that should result in number of used lanes dropping down from full 16 to say 8.
(which wouldn't show in any way in performance with PCIe v4)
And if communication was tried over malfunctioning lanes, those errors would propably cause major issues for rest of the PC.

So what you're saying is its likely a driver issue... Not likely hardware related?

I'm deciding whether I should be trying to arrange a return to nvidia, as I unfortunately don't have another pc to try it in or another gpu (nor can I afford one).
Hopefully I can even do that, as got off a social network marketplace. Id have to lie to nvidia and give the sellers address if he even gives me proof of purchase... Then hope the guy sends to me... Last time I buy privately.

 

[slim01]

Ok weird one... Not sure if this means anything to anyone,

Just turned my TV on (pc was already on) signed in to windows and resolution was at like 1024x768 for some reason... Now I can't change it (only 2 res showing in display settings, that one and 800x600)

Nvidia panel says

Connector:
Dvi - display port

But the cable is just hdmi to a TV

**edit - fixed by turning TV off at the wall, and plugging hdmi back into 3070ti**

 

[slim01]

Ok have tried
-reseating gpu,
-running memory at stock
-put cpu back to stock (no eco mode)

Issue persists. Anything else you guys would try before selling gpu as faulty?
Maybe a windows os refresh or new mobo?

Anyone want to donate me a gpu to test on?

I guess I could just buy like a gtx970 or something but even they are like over £100 atm. So annoying we can't just buy gpus at retail price.

 

[slim01]

Lots of graphics glitches without crashes, shutdowns or Windows giving errors hints strongly toward graphics card's internal functionality/its drivers.

Live Linux with some GPU test would be one way to exclude software issues.
https://www.maketecheasier.com/stress-test-graphics-card-linux/
https://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/
https://www.howtoforge.com/tutorial/linux-gpu-benchmark/


Sounds like you were sold broken card.

Honestly I'm not sure it's the gpu... Multiple people have now told me its not and also looking back at my benchmark notes, I did actually write "texture pop and bad draw distance" but was only one or two areas... But It happened. Might not have been looking though.

I found a vid to show exactly what's happening with texture pop in, in pretty much all my games (which same as video poster):
https://youtu.be/zjgoCGRmi98

I'm starting to think this happened when I updated mobo bios and new cpu.
If this issue was there before, it must be the mobo bios/drivers or a bad cpu, and I can rule out the damage from the screwdriver drop or paste spill. You don't often get bad cpus though right? They often work or they don't?


I'm picking up a 3080 soon anyway of mm here, so can test gpu, but I haven't got my hopes up.

Anyone got an am4 mono to donate? 3080 will clear me clean Haha

 

[slim01]

It's like there's an invisible circle around my character, about 10 meter diameter in most games.
When moving forward, shadows (especially grads shadows and little grass textures) and some objects only render once inside that circle.

I had a similar issues with gta v but that was 2 years ago... But on this same mobo. Not sure what I did to fix it... Maybe a Windows refresh.

 

[slim01]

New gpu, exactly the same issues. In fact maybe even a new one... Don't remember having so many jaggies.

-the gpu in the other pcie slot does the same thing so the slots not damaged
-now using pcie 3.0 riser
-Also changed ram timings to what they should be

I'm sure it's not the ssds themselves as its doing this across multiple games on different SSD's.



I've heard it can be psu / dirty electrical current... Find that hard to believe though as these glitches can be repeated in the exact same areas, it's not intermittent, its constant. The same texture of snow over the same rock will glitch in the same way.

 

[slim01]

Think next up I'll try a windows refresh... Really can't be bothered with having to install everything again... Sigh.


Rekkon it's time for windows 11 yet or no?

 

[slim01]

Everything points toward issue in graphics pipeline and rendering. (either physical graphics card or software)

Well we know now it's not the gpu itself as replaced, could it be something is not reacting well with the drivers? I mean... I did notice that my 3080ti and 3070ti used same drivers, and now my 3080... I downloaded from nvidia site, and I have the same number (2) as its a 3rd copy.

Are all 3000 series really on the same drivers? Is that the issue?

 

[slim01]

Maybe the ram/memory could be at fault? Or some kind of bios setting after I updated the bios?

 

[slim01]

I would probably suggest against Windows 11, it has its fair share of performance issues so you are better sticking with a mature OS. Even the fixed Ryzen issues apparently come back if you swap CPU.

What BIOS version are you using?

Memory might be a good shout, especially with the timing changes. Have you run Memtest on the memory? Memtest86+ via a USB stick for at least 2 or more passes with no errors should be enough. Might take a fair few hours with 32GB though so keep that in mind. If you get any errors you'll want to ideally tweak your settings and retest rather than leave it running.

Have you tried a clean install on a spare empty SSD? If not you'll want it to be as bare bones as possible. Latest version of Windows 10 from the Media Creation tool installed via a known good USB stick, latest X570 motherboard chipset drivers from the AMD site, GPU drivers from the Nvidia and just the game client for the games are you testing.

That's a good shout actually... Could just buy a 120gb ssd or something, install a copy of Windows on that would save me having to reinstall 100's of games and apps (if it solves nothing).

I'll also try memtest, however I've done about an hour of blend test (which I find usually bsods or stops with bad ram timings instantly).

I've never updated the chipset driver, just the bios. I tend to only do mobo updates when needed to do a new part as find the update process scary due to crappy software usually.
I can get chipset drivers direct from amd?

I just find it really strange most of these issues are repeatable in exactly the same area though... What could that mean? It's like it.... Can't quite do the math, like it keeps on doing 2+2=5 or something.

It initially made me think maybe an ssd issue (corrupted data etc), however it's doing it over games on 3 different SSD's.

 

[slim01]

It's that for very large values of 2...
https://www.straightdope.com/21342521/does-2-2-5-for-very-large-values-of-2

And common factor for all these problems is definitely graphics rendering pipeline.
Software/hardware problem outside that would cause issues in everything and not just in graphics, but you haven't told anything about non-graphics problems.
While bug in GPU drivers, or its interaction with hardware can well make textures flicker etc.

What do you mean when you say pipeline? Isn't the mobo like the pipeline, as its taking the info from cpu, ram, ssd, and gpu back and forth then back out of the gpu port? Probably to complicated for me to work out. What would you suggest trying?

I guess if I could find someone with a 3070ti, or 3080, knowing they use the same drivers, see if they have the same issue? If yes. Obvious driver error.

 

[slim01]

I'm baffled.

I've now tried...
-mobo bios is latest: 4021
-memtest completed OK.
-brand new ssd with fresh copy of w10.
-downloaded most recent AMD chipset and gpu drivers.
-tried gpu in both gpu slots.
-run gpu in pcie 3.0 mode (same as when I had it working before with a riser and 3070).
-set trc timing to correct JDEC (all other settings as DOCP settings).

Thanks speed.
-Noticed on gpuz it says my card is not physx capable, is that still even used?
-gpuz says resizable bar is disabled.
-amd card sounds like a good idea at this point.


Next steps...
-try and see if I can test directx somehow as that could have updated badly or not playing ball with a part (current version 12_2).
-turn ON resizable bar see if anything changes.
-try with reverted mobo bios, if can figure out the earliest 5800x was supported, and if I brick it:
-a new mobo.
-try new psu.
-diagnose properly and unplug sound card, all fans, use one stick of memory in each slot (annoying as have to lift cpu cooler and repaste to do this).

I honestly think it's the mobo: let's be honest dropping a screwdriver on it and bending it trying to get 3080ti out couldn't have done it any good.

Well it's really easy to test as, every, single, game has one or several of above issues.

Just loaded up age of empires 4. Waited like a decade for this... its not unplayable but its damn ugly; some of the shadows are constantly shimmering and blocky, some of the trees pop in and out of high/low textures when they enter the top 30% of the screen and same as the grass in horizon, the tiny blades have like bad AA making them look like noisy/shimmery.

 

[slim01]

Ok just confirmed with a mate he has the exact same tree popping textures in AOE 4. But not the flashy shadows, which tbh are rare.

Could nvidia have screwed up their drivers by any chance?
I'm gonna see if I can find someone with Horizon Zero Dawn to see if they have experienced same thing as me.

Anyone know how to download old drivers from nvidia site? Can't see how, and my 3070 was fine on this game so as 3000 series all seem to share the same driver an old known working driver would put the nail in that coffin at least.

P. S
I know someone suggested using benchmark tool but I've found shadows to flash on those even with known working systems.

 

[slim01]

Is the screen ok in other uses?//

Have tried several screens with different cables including hdmi and display port.


Honestly I have no god damn idea what's going on I've now spend 2 days off work trying to fix it and nothing... I just don't get how a new Windows install, new drivers, could not fix an issue such as this. I'm so annoyed

 

[slim01]

Despite of public religious dogma that Nvidia's drivers are always good (and AMD's bad) Nvidia has even had drivers literally burning cards.
Those facts just get always swept under the carpet/buried fast.

Glitching textures/objects are exactly type of problems what some type driver bugs cause. (though bugs in game can also cause such)
During my 25 years of PC use have seen such problems one or twice... And then had those fixed in drivers.


When testing any drivers because of problems, disable automatic driver updates of Wintoys.
It could force install any buggy drivers it wants over functioning drivers.

Great idea and great thinking... Alas, however, I expected windows might have tried that after coming out of safe mode, and confirmed the specific driver number matches the one I installed (using gpu-z) directly before launching a game.

What would you do then, test every single driver from nvidia? I've done a few but not all.

And do or CAN the BIOS or chipset drivers IN ANY WAY interfere with 3D graphics tasks? Doesn't the chipset driver itself control what's going to/from the cpu - mem - gpu?

 

[slim01]

Someone else asked me elsewhere something that might be useful to know:

I used the Asus "EZ flash" from Windows OS, and the E and Z cannot stand for easy... It was the shadiest thing I've ever seen by asus. Horrible software.
I never update my bios unless needed, so it was stock bios probs.

Didn't even work the first time I tried (said driver not recognised or valid or something) when I tried to install the lastest one, then failed again when I tried the first bios version I saw with "cpu support updated". I tried that again, and it worked. It restarted, in the bios then it updated slowly and painfully for 5 mins, then back into windows.

I think then I Tried again the most recent one and finally it started to pre load it or something as before (whilst in Windows), then restarted, installed and I was on the latest bios.

I'm about 90% sure I did that twice. Then dropped in the 5800x and 3080ti, played some games for can't remember a good 30hrs or so on alien fireteam no issues, then 10hrs or so on Horizon, and noted a FEW issues of poor draw distance and pop of horizon but not major, later got the 3070ti INSTALLED DRIVERS AGAIN, NOTING THEY HAD THE EXACT SAME FILE NAME (idiot) in my downloads folder afterwards, and that's when I really started walking around thinking this ain't right... What a poop gpu... But it wasn't gpu.


Thanks for your insight, means a lot.