TF2 Heavy Update

[mr.sly]

+1



Firstly as Skeeter pointed out there is a always a level playing field. Name me one unlockable weapon that is more powerful than the standard item.

I never said otherwise.

As for n00b being confused, do you think a n00b would understand have the medics health gun works or how to set up a teleport or how to disguise as an enemy demo? At some point you're gonna have to RTFM

Yeah, that's why a massive blue or red trail comes out of the medics gun and quite clearly shows that you're healing someone and that the class is called *MEDIC*. If you can't grasp that, then you shouldn't be breathing. But without checking on a message board, there's no way you'd know how to unlock the weapons and it doesn't mention how many you need for each weapon even if you did figure it out.

I didn't say it was a major problem anyway, just confusing for new players and Valve seemed commited from the start to make it friendly for new players.

 

[Skyboat]

I personally think the Ubersaw is a huge improvement over the regular Bonesaw. You just don't miss that -25% swing speed if you're good at melee'ing anyway.

 

[MTA99]

But anyone starting the game now or in the future will have to play a lot before they get to the same level playing field as everyone else. It also makes it more confusing because it doesn't even mention how to unlock the weapons.

I never said otherwise.

You said (and i've quoted it) that a n00b would have to play "a lot" to be on a "level playing field". I asked you to name a more powerful unlockable to justify this "level playing field" statement.

Yeah, that's why a massive blue or red trail comes out of the medics gun and quite clearly shows that you're healing someone and that the class is called *MEDIC*. If you can't grasp that, then you shouldn't be breathing. But without checking on a message board, there's no way you'd know how to unlock the weapons and it doesn't mention how many you need for each weapon even if you did figure it out.

I'll refrain from using a rolleyes and I note you side stepped using the engie or spy in your example. I'll ask you how a n00b would know about an uber charge?

I didn't say it was a major problem anyway, just confusing for new players and Valve seemed commited from the start to make it friendly for new players.

Point taken but there's nothing stopping you jumping straight in and having a blast. If you want to understand the subtleties of the game you're gonna have to RTM.

Wazzat?

Increased The Kritzkrieg's uber-charge rate bonus from 10% to 25%

Source: http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=posts&id=1755&cc=GB

 

[platypus]

yes mate i no its just now that theres even more heavys and more snipers if you not good at sniping your going to get bombarded with $200 shells from the mingun

Ahhah .

 

[Glyndwr]

im really bad with a heavy, i must be the only person that can start attacking another heavy who has lower health...and loose i cant kill anything lol

Aim slightly infront of the direction they are moving in.

 

[NeilF]

Same! Was playing Bad Water and the other team was attacking with about 6 of their team out of 8 as heavys!

I just stood at the back and sniped. By the end of the round I had about 20 kils and 3 deaths, dominating 3 of the other team!

Now, if only those deaths were shown on the main scoreboard to show what a great kill/death ratio you had

 

[mr.sly]

You said (and i've quoted it) that a n00b would have to play "a lot" to be on a "level playing field". I asked you to name a more powerful unlockable to justify this "level playing field" statement.



I'll refrain from using a rolleyes and I note you side stepped using the engie or spy in your example. I'll ask you how a n00b would know about an uber charge?



Point taken but there's nothing stopping you jumping straight in and having a blast. If you want to understand the subtleties of the game you're gonna have to RTM.

For the Engi, its quite clear that they say "Entrance" and "Exit" and if you placed them on the floor and stand on them you'll get teleported. Takes the whole of 30 seconds to experiment and figure it out. Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

For the Spy, you'll scroll through your weapons and then quite clearly see that they're labeled 1 to 9 and shows above which character you'll be. Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

Ubercharge is a little different, but there's two buttons on a mouse and when the bar is filled, flashing and the medic has shouted that the Ubercharge is ready, its not going to take much experimenting to figure it. Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

I hope than answers your questions.

Time for me to quote you "Name me one unlockable weapon that is more powerful than the standard item." I never said there was a weapon that was more powerful. I said it wasn't a level playing field for new players, because they won't have the wider range of weapons and the different tactics they bring to the table without grinding away (just not in as many words).

Now go RTFM and tell me where it says how to unlock the new weapons. Have some rolleyes for your journey.

 

[Revolution6000]

I would be very careful with anything run/installed so as to not upset VAC.

People have been using it since the medic update, you can install it, run it, and then just delete the files (achievements.exe and steam_api.dll) before even opening the game.

It works fine and you won't be banned for it.

 

[BFG_9000]

You're an idiot, and it's "losers" by the way.

How on Earth are you bettering your game by taunting whilst ubered as a Heavy? Yeah, that's really helping your team.

And it's Looooooooooooooooooooooser by the way... I did enjoyed taunting as a heavy especially when ubered, its all part of the game... enjoy it and stop moaning.

 

[CrowK]

Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

I said it wasn't a level playing field for new players, because they won't have the wider range of weapons and the different tactics they bring to the table without grinding away (just not in as many words).

1/ You do realize there is an achievements menu right there in the game that explains the achievement and requirements?

2/ "wasn't a level playing field for new players..." : It's not a level playing field till you figure out the basics? That's true of every game and was definitely true of TF2 before the unlocks. The playing field is not further 'tilted' against new players by the unlocks.

 

[MTA99]

For the Engi, its quite clear that they say "Entrance" and "Exit" and if you placed them on the floor and stand on them you'll get teleported. Takes the whole of 30 seconds to experiment and figure it out. Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

For the Spy, you'll scroll through your weapons and then quite clearly see that they're labeled 1 to 9 and shows above which character you'll be. Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

Ubercharge is a little different, but there's two buttons on a mouse and when the bar is filled, flashing and the medic has shouted that the Ubercharge is ready, its not going to take much experimenting to figure it. Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

I hope than answers your questions.

Perfectly - thank you. Now if you could just give me an example of another game where if you don't know about a particular aspect of a game you *wouldn't* go to a message board or google for the answer.

Time for me to quote you "Name me one unlockable weapon that is more powerful than the standard item." I never said there was a weapon that was more powerful. I said it wasn't a level playing field for new players, because they won't have the wider range of weapons and the different tactics they bring to the table without grinding away (just not in as many words).

Allow me to paraphrase but what you're saying is that a new player won't be as experienced and is therefore at a disadvantage? You know what, you're right, before the introduction of the unlockable weapons this simply wasn't the case.

Now go RTFM and tell me where it says how to unlock the new weapons. Have some rolleyes for your journey.

Whereas for the achievement unlocks, its going to require leaving the game (why would you ever want your players to do that?) and most likely go to a message board or search Google.

 

[Bizarre]

Won't valve notice if you've used the achievement hack due to your stats and hours played with each class? They've even removed the "reset stats" option so if you were to be caught, you couldn't lie and say you had put the hours in but reset the stats yourself.

http://www.steampowered.com/status/tf2/tf2_stats.php

http://www.steampowered.com/status/tf2/tf2_stats.php

^^ I meen, it does seem Valve have a bit of a boner for their stats and achievements, so I wouldn't be suprised if they have some kind of system that flags the accounts of those who've unlocked them in an "unfair" way.

That been said, I totally agree with others in that all unlocks should be available to every player from the get go... hence why I've used the achievement unlocker myself.

 

[mr.sly]

1/ You do realize there is an achievements menu right there in the game that explains the achievement and requirements?

2/ "wasn't a level playing field for new players..." : It's not a level playing field till you figure out the basics? That's true of every game and was definitely true of TF2 before the unlocks. The playing field is not further 'tilted' against new players by the unlocks.

Maybe read the thread first?

 

[mr.sly]

Perfectly - thank you. Now if you could just give me an example of another game where if you don't know about a particular aspect of a game you *wouldn't* go to a message board or google for the answer.

Why? We're talking about TF2 not another game.

Allow me to paraphrase but what you're saying is that a new player won't be as experienced and is therefore at a disadvantage? You know what, you're right, before the introduction of the unlockable weapons this simply wasn't the case.

No, please don't paraphrase because that's not what I was saying at all. It has nothing to with experience. If you had two players who had played for 100+ hours each, and one had all the new weapons and the other player didn't. The first player would have a wide range of strategy over the other player because he can swap out his weapons for something else if needed.

No idea why you have quoted those last two sections either. Care to explain?

 

[MTA99]

Why? We're talking about TF2 not another game.

Lets cut the BS and get back to the original points of disagreement;

1. You claimed at a new player would have to play "a lot" to be on a "level playing field" with a more experienced player. I'm contesting that comment by pointing out that the new player is going to be more disadvantaged by his/her lack of experience over any new weapons (which you agree give no "power" advantage).

2. You suggest the new unlocks are confusing, I'm countering by saying that its the same for any game, there are aspects, subtleties, nuances that you just can't pick up by intuition alone. At some point you're going to have to "google it noob"

No, please don't paraphrase because that's not what I was saying at all. It has nothing to with experience. If you had two players who had played for 100+ hours each, and one had all the new weapons and the other player didn't. The first player would have a wide range of strategy over the other player because he can swap out his weapons for something else if needed.

I totally agree, having the option to use a different weapon in conjunction with a suitable tactic *could* give you an advantage over a similarly experience player but...................that's not what we've been discussing

No idea why you have quoted those last two sections either. Care to explain?

Because by looking on the these message boards, the official steampowered TF2 forums or even googling *as you suggested* you can find the answers

 

[Ice Globe]

Don't particularly enjoy playing the Arena maps, if I wanted to sit and watch others playing, I would play CSS. TF2 is all about short timers/respawning and getting back into the action.

 

[mr.sly]

Lets cut the BS and get back to the original points of disagreement;

1. You claimed at a new player would have to play "a lot" to be on a "level playing field" with a more experienced player. I'm contesting that comment by pointing out that the new player is going to be more disadvantaged by his/her lack of experience over any new weapons (which you agree give no "power" advantage).

I think you're saying a new player is going to be at a disadvantage because they're new to the game over an experience player? But surely that makes it even worse for new players to get into a game, because not only do they not understand the maps and some the more subtle styles of play, but now they have to grind out achievements just so they have the same level of strategy as the rest of the players.

2. You suggest the new unlocks are confusing, I'm countering by saying that its the same for any game, there are aspects, subtleties, nuances that you just can't pick up by intuition alone. At some point you're going to have to "google it noob"

Which I agree with, but not in the case of these unlocks. Because it's not the weapons that are confusing, they all explain on the page what they do. But no where in the game does it tell you how to unlock the weapons. Not even on the weapons page, which I think is a major oversight by Valve who wanted to keep this friendly to new players.

I totally agree, having the option to use a different weapon in conjunction with a suitable tactic *could* give you an advantage over a similarly experience player but...................that's not what we've been discussing

I thought that's exactly what we are talking about. The weapons making the playing field uneven.

Because by looking on the these message boards, the official steampowered TF2 forums or even googling *as you suggested* you can find the answers

Yeah I told you to go and RTFM, which I think means to read the manual? And nowhere in my manual does it mention how to unlock the new weapons. Making players go off and search forums when they could be playing the game sounds like the most insane idea ever.

And just for the record, I'm not against these weapons or the achievements. I just believe as Skeeter said, that they should have been unlocked from the start and left the achievements to the people who actual want to get them.

 

[Margaret]

Don't particularly enjoy playing the Arena maps, if I wanted to sit and watch others playing, I would play CSS. TF2 is all about short timers and getting back into the action.

Agree, well I don't like short timers, default timers is good for me.

 

[Booner!]

I quite like the new method of finding achievements to get weapons. It means that you become a better player. For example, I am now an amazing medic and also it trained me to use the backburner before I even got it by ambushing my enemy. I am now an amazing pyro.

 

[uv]

I quite like the new method of finding achievements to get weapons. It means that you become a better player.

Indeed. Before the pyro acheivements, I hardly ever used my shotgun, and before the medic's I never used the bonesaw. Now that I've done the acheivements, I've learned that melee/secondary weapons are necessary