TF2 MvM update (now with co-op mode)

Yamahahahahaha said:
August 15th, so some time today...
Click to expand...

This is Valve, so I'm thinking Friday.

Looking at this, it looks like its going to be pretty similar to Killing Floor, you have to kill a wave of enemies, then run back to the shop to buy upgrades before the next wave spawns. Can't wait!
 
I'm guessing it will be released between midnight and some early hour of the morning due to time difference.
 
Does no one else think this is terrible? A gimmick? A waste of Valve's time? Just another money-spinner?

TF2 is the only game I've ever played that got markedly worse when it went from Beta to full-release. It's practically sadist what they are doing to the game nowadays. It took them 8 years to develop a perfectly balanced team-shooter worthy of the highest competitive play; it took them about 2 to turn it into an infant's sandbox. Incredible.
 
InKursion said:
Does no one else think this is terrible? A gimmick? A waste of Valve's time? Just another money-spinner?


TF2 is the only game I've ever played that got markedly worse when it went from Beta to full-release. It's practically sadist what they are doing to the game nowadays. It took them 8 years to develop a perfectly balanced team-shooter worthy of the highest competitive play; it took them about 2 to turn it into an infant's sandbox. Incredible.
Click to expand...



Nope, Nope, Nope and Nope. :p Ive enjoyed TF2 since it came out (beta), its still very enjoyable now and with this new addition it just gets better.
 
Last edited:
It's funny that there's obviously a group of people like yourself who do enjoy seeing the game twisted and turned away from its original purpose and vision. Everyone I used to play with, including most of the competitive community, have totally moved on. I think TF2 will start to be phased out of leagues and LAN's in the next year or two, probably for another quick and rubbish title like CS:GO. Such a shame! When TF2 was released it really had everyone excited and everyone talking. Now it only has an amateur LAN/tournament scene left, because all the big teams have moved on :(
 
InKursion said:
It's funny that there's obviously a group of people like yourself who do enjoy seeing the game twisted and turned away from its original purpose and vision. Everyone I used to play with, including most of the competitive community, have totally moved on. I think TF2 will start to be phased out of leagues and LAN's in the next year or two, probably for another quick and rubbish title like CS:GO. Such a shame! When TF2 was released it really had everyone excited and everyone talking. Now it only has an amateur LAN/tournament scene left, because all the big teams have moved on :(
Click to expand...

Personally i don't think the hats and crafting etc make all that much of a difference to the game, the hats are just visual and the weapons still have good and bad points, in a lot of cases theyre not much more than reskins.
 
I have the Cheater's Lament, Primordial Warrior and ETF2L Highlander Finalist medals. I'm a veritably decorated veteran of the TF2 item multiverse ;) . Division 1 ETF2l Seasons 1-3, Div2 for Season 4. Multiple LAN's, etc. I've seen my circle and the wider esports community slowly dissolve away from the game as more and more joke-gimmick updates get released... to predictable, if confusing, fanfare. People are lapping up this new crap, even though it adds nothing more to the game except for a sideways distraction.

It's true that hats and weapons haven't affected TF2 fundamentally, but when a game developer completely ignores the core game concepts for so long, and only seems interested in introducing more cash-spinning extraneous features... then the serious community, those that really embrace the game and play it everyday, knowing it in-and-out completely-- well, they move on. No new decent maps, no support, no fixes, no fresh lease of life for the actual 5CP element.

Besides pubplay is now an arduous chore, if you want a 'decent' game experience. So many weapons and so many random items on every class just adds to the game's innate complexity: and more complexity = more difficulty to balance. TF2 at Beta (after the Sticky fixes) was pretty much the closest thing to a perfectly-balanced team shooter that PC gaming has ever seen; all the pieces just fit, like a chess-set. It was fantastic. Now... well now there are so many things that really don't make any sense, in a rudimentary rock-paper-scissors kinda way. But that's a major whine-analysis for another thread...

I feel it's going the same way as many other 'major' FPS titles nowadays. Most players are carried along by hype and caught-up in the excitement of a conveyor belt of new features, without ever really stopping to ask 'why?' or 'what for?'. People are just immediately happy to have this new novelty (and novelty is all it is) and receive everything with rapturous applause. 3 months on, you really have to question if the game is going to be any better for introducing a Robot Wars mini-game.
 
Last edited:
InKursion, as an absolute outsider to the esports community, what is the up-and-coming or current most played game in the team based fps genre? Are a lot of people pinning their hopes on shootmania storm being the next skill and team based game? I used to play cs through beta till 1.6 and loved the clan match scene, would love to get back into that sort of thing.
 
G4cE said:
InKursion, as an absolute outsider to the esports community, what is the up-and-coming or current most played game in the team based fps genre? Are a lot of people pinning their hopes on shootmania storm being the next skill and team based game? I used to play cs through beta till 1.6 and loved the clan match scene, would love to get back into that sort of thing.
Click to expand...

I think CS:Go and Tribes Ascend will be the big two going forward personally.
 
There isn't one, this is the problem (but again, for another thread).

Shootmania is absolutely terrible and inept for a multitude of reasons: it's basically the result of a company identifying a 'gap in the market' (i.e. there are no hardcore FPS games around anymore) and then simply trying to make a game with no actual research, knowledge, or insider-input. It's misguided and it's terrible.

CS:GO won't fill any meaningful void, it has way too far to go. TF2 clearly has no interest in being that game anymore. Leagues and sponsors will likely stay with something 'safe' and boring like CSS. Meanwhile gamers take to MOBA's, an easier and less individually-focussed genre of game that accommodates people of all skill-levels. The future of Esports for now is big-money LoL and... well, that's it. It's a desert. Quake Live is still there, but you need to get sponsors and big money interested in reviving it (as well as iD themselves) for the pros to come back. That sort of game takes intensive amounts of training and time-investment from the pros to be good at. It's too demanding to be revived for a small audience, if you know what I mean. All the hardcore gamers will just play easy-fests like LoL because it's a far easier way for them to make their money.

Basically the future is MOBA's and SC2 for the next 10 years. If you're an oldschool FPS gamer (like me), then all you can do is sit on the side and make 4 paragraph long whine posts on Internet forums, as you watch the rest of the PC FPS community suffer from a collective bout of ADHD and go nuts over gimmicks and cash-spinning novelties.

To the above poster: have you played CS:GO? It's not fit for purpose. And Tribes Ascend has already started the long slow decline, going the exact same way as TF2. It's progression is mirroring TF2's decline in an eerie way.
 
InKursion said:
There isn't one, this is the problem (but again, for another thread).

Shootmania is absolutely terrible and inept for a multitude of reasons: it's basically the result of a company identifying a 'gap in the market' (i.e. there are no hardcore FPS games around anymore) and then simply trying to make a game with no actual research, knowledge, or insider-input. It's misguided and it's terrible.

CS:GO won't fill any meaningful void, it has way too far to go. TF2 clearly has no interest in being that game anymore. Leagues and sponsors will likely stay with something 'safe' and boring like CSS. Meanwhile gamers take to MOBA's, an easier and less individually-focussed genre of game that accommodates people of all skill-levels. The future of Esports for now is big-money LoL and... well, that's it. It's a desert. Quake Live is still there, but you need to get sponsors and big money interested in reviving it (as well as iD themselves) for the pros to come back. That sort of game takes intensive amounts of training and time-investment from the pros to be good at. It's too demanding to be revived for a small audience, if you know what I mean. All the hardcore gamers will just play easy-fests like LoL because it's a far easier way for them to make their money.

Basically the future is MOBA's and SC2 for the next 10 years. If you're an oldschool FPS gamer (like me), then all you can do is sit on the side and make 4 paragraph long whine posts on Internet forums, as you watch the rest of the PC FPS community suffer from a collective bout of ADHD and go nuts over gimmicks and cash-spinning novelties.
Click to expand...

No mention for Tribes Ascend? I think it's a great team shooter personally and has the potential to make it big if more people would give it a chance.
 
The developers of Tribes aren't giving it a chance competitively. I've played it since Beta and all I see evidence of in the last few patches is a game developer cashing in on a lucrative free-to-play model. I see greater and greater imbalance and no features or bug-fixes to help the competitive community. It's essentially a clone of TF2's development ethos.
 
The TF2 competitive scene has been growing consistently. It's actually starting to pick up pace in the last few months. There was a vote on MLG for what game they should pick up, and TF2 won. TF2 outvoted Halo. Halo is the reason MLG exists and is one of the most prestigious esports events.

Yes, pubs are a giant mess of weird weapons and gaudy looking characters. But the competitive scene is extremely healthy. ETF2L, the best EU league of TF2 plays vanilla + medlocks, every other weapon is banned. So the game is still played in its original form by thousands of players. You just have to look outside of the pub scene and discover the competitive scene.

edit: just saw that you were part of the competitive scene a while ago. It's still the same as it is now. Yes, a lot of the veterans have moved on but that happens with all games. There's still a lot of old players around. The difference is the competitive scene is a lot bigger now across all the divs. The LANs are better bigger too - the next iSeries will feature, for the first time, the top NA teams against the top EU teams at a LAN.
 
Last edited:
The league scene was, technically, at its largest when my team disbanded (and many other franchise teams moved on, or ahem 'reshuffled'). ETF2L had loads of low-division teams signing up every week, playing games... it was great, for a while. But the top-level talent have moved on, and that's the people that generate money for the corporates and sponsors behind the whole thing. Without big 'star' teams and personalities, the entertainment aspect of eSports gets lost. Without mentioning any names, I watched the last i-Series LAN competition, and it was pitiful. No top-level players, no top-level teams fielded. It's a game that has devolved into amateurism. It has gone downhill from its early days. How is that possible? It's obscene. The quality of gameplay is supposed to get better and more refined, not worse.
 
You must have watched the wrong iSeries. It's been the same for years. People can't afford to go to every iSeries. There's always 1 really good one, then a lot of people will skip the next one. Then everyone will go to the next one, etc. The last one wasn't so good, sure, but the next one will be huge. It's the same cycle it's always been.

And some of the top teams have moved on, but like I said that happens with every game. There's not a single game that's ever existed where that hasn't happened. There's still top teams around. Epsilon, TCM and Infused came top 3 last season. They're all very old teams that's been around forever.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom