Thanking of changing to an automatic

Manbatius · 12 Mar 2018 at 21:39

Hopefully I can link these, (if not a mod can remove it and I apologise)

Here is some reading OP:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/automatic-transmissions/

Then have a search on DSG to get some answers to some of the questions people have, there is one in here:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/h...ohns-motoring-agony-column-01-04-2017-part-1/

Dr Who · 13 Mar 2018 at 02:51

Dav4 said:
On an average petrol car your talking well under 1k for a full clutch replacement whereas auto boxes can on average cost well over 1k when they go wrong and they do more so than clutches going on a manual

Clutch is a consumable, they will always go at some stage, a good auto box can do 250,000 miles without a problem, DSG, not so likely, still developing technology.

ShiWarrior · 13 Mar 2018 at 14:40

Manbatius said:
Hopefully I can link these, (if not a mod can remove it and I apologise)

Here is some reading OP:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/automatic-transmissions/

Then have a search on DSG to get some answers to some of the questions people have, there is one in here:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/h...ohns-motoring-agony-column-01-04-2017-part-1/

thanks
I shall give it a read

sounds like I should try and avoid an automatic at all costs ? but if i "need" to, then DSG box best way to go?

acemastr · 13 Mar 2018 at 15:35

Automatics are fine, they really don't go wrong often (torque converters). Seems like a bit of scare mongering going on.

Torque converter transmissions here last for 200k miles happily, the one in my Frontier was sold at 168k miles, my BMW in the UK had no issues all the way to 110k miles. Don't worry so much.

ci_newman · 13 Mar 2018 at 17:38

All of my future cars will be bought with an autobox. There's a lot of scaremongering going on.

You just have to buy carefully, in the same way you wouldn't buy a poorly maintained turbo engine or a low-mileage diesel with a DPF

Conanius · 13 Mar 2018 at 20:59

I don't know what BMW auto you've driven... but if its something with the ZF8HP box, please don't go into a £5k DSG equipped VAG car and think it will be the same sort of experience. I'm not a DSG fan at all.

I did ~35k from new in a Mk2 Fabia vRS with the 1.4 Twincharged engine, and I've since done the best part of 35k in two ZF8HP BMWs (F31 330D M Sport and now my F25 X3 35d). There is a night a day difference, regardless what VAG fanboys will tell you. I'd go as far to say the 8 Speed Aisin transmission in my Wife's 2017 Mini Clubman is notably better than the DSG box. I'd go for an older traditional auto over a DSG if you want a smooth drive (As an example I much preferred the Auto in the Discovery we had after the Fabia vRS)

Incidentally, unless its some ultra unique sports car or a freebie, I don't see me ever buying a manual. Modern Autos are superb.

rhysduck · 13 Mar 2018 at 21:06

Why the DSG hate? What makes it so naff compared to the Mini box?

I love my DSG and wouldn't go back to a manual. It's a dream! The Semi auto functionality is there if I need it, which I do use often.

ShiWarrior · 13 Mar 2018 at 21:27

They cant be that bad, my step day had a petrol Octavia VRS (2002 era) and he said it was really good, ive driven it, and ive liked it, it got stolen, he then went and bought another Auto, but an old Jag S-Type, and the car did like 250K miles, he now has a brand new Octavia vRS Estate (again another Auto) and he loves it

the BMW i drove was a 2016 1 series diesel, i love it, and i could see my driving it, but i don't have that sort of money

Conanius · 13 Mar 2018 at 21:30

Fox will confirm I'm sure, but the 1 series has the ZF8HP gearbox. No wonder you loved it

In my experience the DSG box regularly seemed to find itself in the wrong gear and get upset with itself... It also felt really "lurchy" especially when cold.

ShiWarrior · 13 Mar 2018 at 21:36

only had it for 2 days, so didnt get used much though

"if" i do decide to get an auto i will test drive one anyway, and ask for assistance again for what car to buy for X amount in an auto to get an idea what boxes to avoid and which boxes are better

jpaul · 13 Mar 2018 at 23:42

After having had a back problem (ruptured a disc) a few years back, main issue for the car was the hardness of the suspension and the seat position,
I considered changing the e36 I had then, and also invested in some Tempur lumber support cushions. (saab/volvo seats had looked attractive)

On the clutch use, are there cars that need lighter clutch pressure ?

grudas · 13 Mar 2018 at 23:48

I'm loving my lexus is250 auto. Should be able to get one for under 5k. If you don't mind the 28mpg or so.

Dr Who · 14 Mar 2018 at 01:16

rhysduck said:
Why the DSG hate? What makes it so naff compared to the Mini box?

I love my DSG and wouldn't go back to a manual. It's a dream! The Semi auto functionality is there if I need it, which I do use often.

Some drivers never acquire the nack with a DSG box. Once you understand the automated manual aspect and drive it allowing for it's "programming" they are darn good, until they break, which the older ones did with remarkable regularity. I have driven loads of them and love them. They will never be quite as smooth as a traditional auto in SOME circumstances as they have a clutch not a torque converter, but once you adapt your driving to suit, I think they are excellent.

paradigm · 14 Mar 2018 at 06:20

Conanius said:
Fox will confirm I'm sure, but the 1 series has the ZF8HP gearbox. No wonder you loved it

In my experience the DSG box regularly seemed to find itself in the wrong gear and get upset with itself... It also felt really "lurchy" especially when cold.

You have to remember that there isn’t a single DSG box, there are at least 8 different applications that I know of. All have different traits and positives. My S3 for example is a bit “digital” from a stand still, it’s far easier to pull off with a bit of a scurry! Compared to my wife’s, it’s far more lethargic, but smoother as a result. Neither find themselves in the wrong gear with the exception (possibly, depends on your understanding of how the box works) of bringing mine out of “coasting” mode, whereby more often than not it will go into the gear it WAS in, rather than related to the speed you are now doing (easily possible to be a higher speed if coasting downhill), but it soon sorts itself out.

DSG boxes aren’t as smooth as torque converters though, but they are typically better for driving with paddles or sequential levers.

Nasher · 14 Mar 2018 at 08:33

DSGs were originally made for high performance driving, not crawling in traffic. That's why they don't feel as smooth. Crawling along does put a lot of extra wear on them compared to a torque converter as well.

mjt · 14 Mar 2018 at 10:34

Nasher said:
DSGs were originally made for high performance driving, not crawling in traffic. That's why they don't feel as smooth. Crawling along does put a lot of extra wear on them compared to a torque converter as well.

Just bought a Mk7 Golf with a DSG 'box.
What's the correct way of using a DSG in traffic then? Leave it in D and let the thing disengage the clutch itself, or knock it into N?
Should I allow it to creep in 1st like I do a torque converter in D/manual in 1st?

If I use the ACC, then I surely have to leave it in gear anyway for the auto stop/start?

Dazzy · 14 Mar 2018 at 11:40

mjt said:
Just bought a Mk7 Golf with a DSG 'box.
What's the correct way of using a DSG in traffic then? Leave it in D and let the thing disengage the clutch itself, or knock it into N?
Should I allow it to creep in 1st like I do a torque converter in D/manual in 1st?

If I use the ACC, then I surely have to leave it in gear anyway for the auto stop/start?

Leave it in D and let the auto hold sort itself out.

Don't let it creep too much, better to leave a bit of space and let the clutch engage properly.

acemastr · 14 Mar 2018 at 12:10

DSG shouldn't be allowed to creep, it uses clutches to do so. Torque converters use fluid that has cooling.

Dr Who · 14 Mar 2018 at 12:49

mjt said:
Just bought a Mk7 Golf with a DSG 'box.
What's the correct way of using a DSG in traffic then? Leave it in D and let the thing disengage the clutch itself, or knock it into N?
Should I allow it to creep in 1st like I do a torque converter in D/manual in 1st?

If I use the ACC, then I surely have to leave it in gear anyway for the auto stop/start?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm6zUzv5Ul4

Alibaba99 · 14 Mar 2018 at 13:03

Nasher said:
DSGs were originally made for high performance driving, not crawling in traffic. That's why they don't feel as smooth. Crawling along does put a lot of extra wear on them compared to a torque converter as well.

The first car with a twin clutch gearbox was the Mk4 Golf R32, not a really high performance car. They were developed as, it the time, they were smaller, lighter and more efficient than a traditional torque converter box so more suitable for small light cars. These days, torque converter units are much better in those regards, and their other advantages then become significant.

mjt said:
Just bought a Mk7 Golf with a DSG 'box.
What's the correct way of using a DSG in traffic then? Leave it in D and let the thing disengage the clutch itself, or knock it into N?
Should I allow it to creep in 1st like I do a torque converter in D/manual in 1st?

If I use the ACC, then I surely have to leave it in gear anyway for the auto stop/start?

Leave it in Drive and stop using the footbrake, the car will drop into neutral automatically. If you try using the handbrake it will leave it in gear and allow the clutch to drag.