***The 2020 Gym Rats Thread*** ᕦ( ͠°◞ °)ᕥ

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That’s weird, will investigate. I order the 5kg bags of unflavoured MP milk protein (70/30 blend of casein/whey) and they were doing 50% off before the price hike so I got 10kg for about £40 which should last me a while...

Back in MuscleWorks tonight for the first time and hooray for longer opening hours, not so hooray for have a full-time DJ booth and pounding out whack training music. I miss the days when Steve Avery worked there and when the owner wasn’t in he’d be blasting rock, metal and take requests.
 
Muscleworks is dead atm, I think them jacking up the membership cost has made a lot of people not come back and sign-up elsewhere, although unless they're content to train in a poverty chain gym, the other big warehouse gyms in the region are a bit of a trek (Crayford Weights & Fitness and Kings Gym). It's a 2 min drive from my house though so I'd rather pay more for the convenience.

I'm genuinely surprised how well the bodyweight stuff managed to maintain about 80-85% of my strength, especially the front of my legs only being able to do pistol squats and step-ups. Not used to carrying load on my back or front rack and the neurological demand of working at closer %'s to 1RM, and my hip hinging has suffered, but should all be back in a few weeks in my estimation.

Good example of 'the amount of work needed to maintain and adaptation is significantly less than the amount of work required to obtain that adaptation in the first place'.
 
This sort of thing is fine until you're moving big weights and want the stands to be connected/more stable.

And get a proper 7ft Oly bar and plates!

EDIT - Or sign up to a gym. The Pure gym next to my work isn't dire as long as it's not too busy and I believe they're all relatively alike equipment-wise. It largely comes down to what times you can train though as if you can avoid the typical late afternoon/early-evening window it's likely to not be too bad.
 
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If it's anything like my Pure gym, the staff go out of their way to avoid having to interact with members unless they're training them. They'll scurry about picking plates up and putting them back, but not ask the actual people leaving them lying around to do it. The lay person might assume the proper bodybuilding meat-head gym would be the one with more ego and dumb behaviour going on, but it's completely the other way round in my experience.
 
Can anyone suggest a routine to make further strength gains?

Current stats:

BW = 60kg
Years training = 10

PBs (Powerlifting rules - i.e. pause bench, squat with hips below knees):

Squat = 140kg
Bench = 100kg
Dead = 180kg

I also do weighted pullups:
+ 40kg x 1 (estimated - I do more than 8 reps with +50% BW = 30kg+)

Ideally, I want the biggest strength gains with the shortest routine - e.g. I would rather go to the gym every day for 30 mins than 3 times a week for 70 mins!

Nice numbers. Off the top of my head here's a couple of things because you likely need at least some periodisation at this point rather than just trying to stick more weight on per-session or week:

1) free = Candito 6 week program (%'s based, basic Excel sheet), GZCL UHF5 (think it's RPE-based but can't remember)
2) cheap = Average to Savage 2.0 - excel sheet and you can spread the training volume over 3-6 days, I think it auto-regulates loads based on performance so somewhat interactive
3) $1 a day-ish = Juggernaut AI Powerlifting 2.0 - you pay monthly and can do all of the above, but the algorithm is a bit more advanced (although it's ultimately still some sort of decision-tree)
 
Did my Level 2 & 3 PT practicals today (did the theory stuff ages ago but the rona put a stop to any gym assessments), bit of a joke tbh as far as what it takes to be nationally recognised officially (did an unofficial thing that was much better a while back), but I wanted it as an addition to my MNU cert. I can haz training/nutrition gains.

Got to play around with an Assault AirRunner too which is that banana-shaped self-powered treadmill that you control the speed of - takes a while to get used to it but it’s really clever. They need a micro-version for home gyms or standing desks.
 
You don’t need to eat small meals every 3 hours: use personal preference + what is most convenient/practical as your main decision-makers for how often and when you eat (this assumes calories are matched), as especially for fat loss meal frequency/timing isn’t that important outside of sports-specific contexts like intense 2-a-day training, a lot endurance work, etc.

If you don’t want to track intake then tbh I don’t think it’s an issue if the goal is just to get to an average body fat level. If you’re eating sufficient protein and training hard then it’s difficult to lose anything but fat even with larger deficits. The closer you get to 6 pack lean and beyond though, the more a greater degree of accuracy becomes important - which something like tracking helps provide - but you just need to get in the ballpark for now and can use scales to track rate of loss.

That said, there’s still an element of picking your poison, so if you don’t want to track intake and your wife makes big dinners, then this may mean having to reduce portion size or removing certain things you eat elsewhere in the day to compensate and be on the safe side, e.g. sticking mainly to protein + fibrous veggies/salad the rest of the day if dinner is a calorie bomb (which things like curries usually are - anything involving ghee is a nightmare).
 
Ok, I thought had to eat 20g protein every 3 hours due to muscles needing protein every 3 hours? I do keep a mental track of what I eat and I am cutting down, have lost 2 pounds since last week.

There’s two different things to talk about

1) It’s a bit more technical than this, but the basic mechanism is that when you ingest protein it starts off something called muscle protein synthesis (MPS), which is the whole growth/repair thing. In an ideal world, you want to maximise the amount of MPS per protein feeding, so you’ll get the biggest anabolic response; this is usually around 20-25g+ protein per meal/snack for most to hit that threshold, depending on how big you are. How much of a % of difference slightly more or less makes is up for debate, but it’s not hard to do this given 20g isn’t a huge amount (e.g. your typical shake is 20-25g, as is 100g of uncooked chicken).

If you have more, MPS isn’t elevated further because you’ve already maxed out the response. The extra protein isn’t wasted, because protein is used by the body for lots of things other than just muscle (especially during a diet), but it means less opportunity to trigger MPS later on. If you have less then it means you still trigger MPS but don’t maximise it. This elevation of MPS lasts for around 3-4 hours - the refractory period - which means any protein consumed before that won’t re-elevate MPS (again, not wasting the protein).

What this all translates to is a simple rule: divide your protein up into 4-6 feedings per day (preference/practicality/how many cals you have to play with), whether that’s as part of a meal or just a shake + snack. This is best practice for the purpose of muscle gain according to the body of evidence.

Now if you’re dieting, then outside of a couple of scenarios (new to lifting, coming back from a layoff, have a highish body fat) you won’t build much muscle due to the calorie deficit. Building muscle in an expensive process for the body, losing fat isn’t. For this reason, stimulating MPS as often as is possible becomes less as important because the overall environment isn’t as anabolic. The main thing is simply to eat enough protein to maintain positive nitrogen balance (a fancy way of saying you aren’t going catabolic) each day.

This leads to...

2) As far as avoiding muscle loss during a diet, over 24 hours your overall protein intake is by far the most important thing (as is training - as ‘use it or lose it’ becomes even more important). If calories are matched then it makes no meaningful difference if you’re having a few or lots of meals, because when you zoom out at the overall time spent in a fed/fasted state it’s the same. The only thing to really consider is protein around training, since training is inherently demanding of protein due to the breakdown of muscle tissue, which really just comes down to common sense and really applies whether you’re dieting, maintaining or gaining:

A) You want some protein in you 1-2 hours before training
B) You want some protein in you 1-2 hours after training
 
Discovered calf raises on the leg press today (one where you add the plates) and wow it's tough. Did 3x12 at 40kg but felt the burn which is good. :)

Friendly reminder if you're not already, because calves are notoriously hard to grow: DO. NOT. BOUNCE. EVER. Pause at the top and bottom - if you bounce you're just using your Achilles tendon and stretch reflex more than anything, not the actual calf. I lose count of the amount of people at the gym doing set after set of calf stuff and it's all bouncy bouncy.
 
Tried some strongman stuff today for the first time.
- the inside of my forearms looks like I've been hit by a car
- the tacky stuff you use for the atlas stones is messy AF, needed to shower in white spirit afterwards
- the stones themselves are a b1tch to lift, and the fixed height of the platform you plop them off is heightist to manlets (just suck at the top bit of the lift tbh)
- tyre flipping is fun once I got the technique down, same for log press

Everything about it feels awkward! I like my boring barbell/DB/machine/cable stuff. Such a bro.
 
You need to master the head press to get the stone up if you're a dwarf like me :D

I bet you feel extra battered today! It's totally different to a normal gym workout but great fun, we've done a few strongman meets from the forum and they were always a good day.

My forearms are so tight and I have bicep DOMs which is really weird, mid-upper back is tender too, probably because I don't usually do anything where that flexes under load. Bruising is no different to when I first started playing with kettle-bells before I joined a gym so not that bad.

I must research this head press technique for next time. I skimmed an Alan Thrall video on technique quickly to get the gist, but while I was okay with stones below bodyweight, but once they got as heavy/heavier than me it all fell apart. When I used to deadlift I got up to repping double bodyweight fairly easily, so obviously found being pwned by significantly less than that a bit annoying!

Also re these apps telling you about capacity - my PureGym is exactly like this, claiming x amount of people in the gym and then going in to find it's heaving because people haven't actually checked in on the app once they've entered. Daft. I don't think MuscleWorks gives a hoot about capacity other than their official statements. People in both clearing up after themselves though, but other than sweat stains I don't plan on licking barbells or handles.
 
Well I'm currently doing 2 upper days 2 lower days. I'm thinking one day high weight low reps. One day medium weight high reps.

Is that good for actual muscle growth?

As long as progressive overload is occurring over time (in conjunction with sufficient food and rest) you’ll grow. For the purposes of hypertrophy, it seems that the 6-12 rep range tends to be the most practical for a variety of reasons, but there’s good arguments for utilising both higher and lower reps than that strategically. Low rep (1-5) shouldn’t make up too much of your program if the goal is maximising growth, because of the adaptations being geared more towards neuromuscular efficiency/recruiting a greater % of the muscle mass you have, but that doesn’t mean you can’t include some strength-focused work in.

Example - my first lower day I squat and RDL in the 4-6 rep range, then the rest of the workout is in the 6-8 and 8-12 rep range, where as on the second day it’s 6-8 on the squat press and hip thrust, currently, then 8-12 and 12-15 for the rest. When you look at the overall volume of work (sets x reps x load), 80% occurs in that moderate 6-12 range, but there’s some strength work at the start of day 1 and some pump-y stuff at the end of day 2.

Good morning all!

Anyone got any good suggestions other than farmers carries/ DB walks and deadlift holds for improving grip strength?

Im now back to 140KG deadlifts on madcow (not amazing i know but slow progress is progress) and have been using standard grip for all sets, but now (at 140) it seems the grip is the thing that might be stopping me soon.

I use liquid chalk for the last set of 5 @ 140 and hold each rep for as long as I can at the top for improving my grip, but I think I'm going to have to start heavy DB walks in to help improve this or something else to help me push further.

I didnt really want to start using straps until a bit heavier weight, as I want to ensure good grip strength and i read straps basically stop this improving, or should i look to be strapping for the last set of 5 and continue to do all other workup sets standard grip to improve?


Sorry if the questions seem dumb only been going to the gym for about a year now, and before was doing stronglofts 5x5 before moving onto madcow a few months before lockdown, so never really hit an issue with grip until now.

When I deadlifted I warmed up double-overhand, then used hook grip, at first for everything then eventually for singles and straps for rep work (ala Tom Martin). I never had aspirations of competing as a powerlifter, so I didn’t really care that much. I personally use the Olympic weightlifting style straps because they release when you let go, which is safer than the kind that trap your wrists and cut off your circulation, at the cost of less ‘help’. I’m using the Weightlifting House Chinese-style straps atm, but also have had the IronMind Sew Easy ones.

The guy at my gym with an insane deadlift (well over x3 bodyweight, IPF powerlifiter) used those Captain’s of Crush or similar brand type things a lot and swore by them, as well as a loading pin with a thick bar grip as it’s a bit less taxiing on the rest of the body than farmer’s walks or doing iso holds from the rack with >deadlift 1-5RM weights.
 
Thanks for the reply. I've figured best way to beat 75x5 max was to go heavier so tried that today first time. 77.5, 5 sets. Two of 3 reps. Last three 4 reps. I think this is best way to progress on my BP.

This is full workout for upper day today.

Upper B
Saturday 5 Sep 2020, 08:34

Overhead Press (Barbell)
Set 1: 47.5 kg × 5
Set 2: 47.5 kg × 4
Set 3: 47.5 kg × 5

Triceps Extension (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 32 kg × 8
Set 2: 32 kg × 8
Set 3: 32 kg × 8

Bicep Curl (Dumbbell)
Set 1: 16 kg × 8
Set 2: 16 kg × 8
Set 3: 16 kg × 9

Bench Press (Barbell)
Set 1: 77.5 kg × 3
Set 2: 77.5 kg × 3
Set 3: 77.5 kg × 4
Set 4: 77.5 kg × 4
Set 5: 77.5 kg × 4

Lat Pulldown (Cable)
Set 1: 52 kg × 12
Set 2: 52 kg × 11
Set 3: 52 kg × 10

Pullover (Dumbbell) for chest
Set 1: 30 kg × 8
Set 2: 30 kg × 8
Set 3: 30 kg × 8

Waiter curl
Set 1: 26 kg × 12
Set 2: 26 kg × 12
Set 3: 26 kg × 15

with Strong

Anything to change or anything im doing wrong?

Is that the order you're doing them in? I and most others would do the compounds first then isolation stuff last, so: bench, lat pull-down, OHP, pullover, tris and bis (not sure why you need two different curls).

As for progression, I find this to be my favourite way, at least for non block-based or fancy periodisation. Do this for a few weeks, have a lighter deload week, repeat.
 
Yeah that's cool.

Anyway, main thing is, when you're new to lifting you can be pretty certain if you're sensible with weight selection when you start you can just do straight sets like 5x5 or 3x5 or 3x8 or whatever, for quite a while just sticking 2.5kg extra on the bar session to session.

This kind of super simple linear progress dries up after a while for everything (usually OHP, then bench, then squats/deads on the common strength-focused programs), even with the back-cycling of weights, which is when you move to a progression model that's more week-to-week. There's the more 'go by feel' RPE/RIR* approaches where you work in rep ranges, like the dynamic double progression I linked or just simple double-progression, more structured ones like linear wave-loading that use planned loads or %-based progressions you see in powerlifting programs, or some combination of both, but the main thing is having a strategy that facilitates progress without unrealistic expectations of how fast that progress can/will happen.

There's other factors too, like bodyweight which lead to stalling at different points; someone who is 100kg and starts out benching 50kg, you'd expect to be able to linearly progress to 100kg before having to program more intelligently. The same couldn't be said for a 70kg person trying to move the same weight. Anyway, point is at some point 'back cycle 10% and work back up' won't work and a lot of people bang their head against a wall over and over here rather than just recognising it's a dead-end and the route has to change in order for you to keep moving.


*Rate of Perceived Exertion/Reps In Reserve
 
Russian Baby Makers on the regular, do a YouTube hip opening class (Tom Merrick or some yoga chicks) a couple of times a week. Also do these or similar stuff the same cues apply for like dead-bugs and the hollow-body gymnastic position; sometimes people take the chest-up cue too far and puff it up to the point you can’t actually create tension in the core.
 
I usually only use protein powder either in my proats as a first or last meal, or have a shake w/cereal or some other carbs 60-90mins before training. Post-workout is nearly always a proper meal anywhere from 15-90mins after.

Just follow the principles here and you'll be grand:

Nutrient-Timing-Pyramid-for-Muscle-Gain-Instagram.png
 
The only thing that does anything meaningful in pre-workouts is caffeine (at least these days after products that had amphetamine-derivatives in were banned). Everything else is mainly to create a physical sensation such as the beta-alanine tingles, rather than have any efficacy when it comes to performance. This is why the more frugal among us just buy caffeine pills or drink strong coffee assuming training isn't happening too late in the day.

When it comes to performance enhancers for lifting weights, it's basically
1) chronic creatine monohydrate consumption: 3-5g/day
2) acute caffeine ingestion pre-workout: 3-6mg/kg (studies have used up to 9mg/kg but it greatly increased experience of adverse effects)
3) PEDs
 
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