***The 2020 Gym Rats Thread*** ᕦ( ͠°◞ °)ᕥ

[Somnambulist]

2015 Thread
2016 Thread
2017 Thread
2018 Thread
2019 Thread
2015 Powerlifting Totals Thread
2015 Goals / Targets Thread
Ultimate Beginners Guide
icecolds Mobilty Thread
Steedies Diet and Macros Thread
Form guide and discussion
Post your bodies up boys, Bodybuilders Pics Thread
Home Gym Thread
mrthingyx's Clean And Jerk Guide
Sports Arena Competition/Event Calendar

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Let the gains begin!

 

[Somnambulist]

Dibs on first workout of the year as I'm on nights 8pm-8am, time to bench...

 

[Somnambulist]

That's some artistic license with the thread title right there!

Thought I'd take the opportunity to jazz things up (and show my pre-emoji internet age) with this year's thread whilst everyone else was most likely out doing normal person stuff on NYE.

Not really sure what I'm going for this year. I guess a mix of strength/physique with maybe a little more emphasis on strength.

Going to drop my squats by 10% tonight and build back up (stronglifts). I've only failed twice but there is no way I'm making it tonight so I may as well drop it now and build back up.

It looks like my gym buddy (spotter ) has broken his hand and I'm getting pretty close to my max on bench press so I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do there.

He'll be fine with a one-hand spot. It takes surprisingly little assistance to help someone through the sticking point on bench, at least with the sort of weights someone on a beginner program will likely be using. Alternatively you can just not put clips on the bar and if you fail, tip the bar so the weights slide off. It's loud and everyone will look at you, but it's better than pinning yourself and doing ye olde roll of shame (or worst case scenario choking yourself out). The third option is if you've developed a reasonable idea of how many reps in the tank you have left, don't be a hero and try and grind out a rep you're not sure if you'll be able to make it. Training to failure isn't a necessity when it comes to getting bigger or stronger and ending a set when you know you've only got 1-2 reps left is a better strategy more often than not on big compound movements because those last couple of reps before failure tend to be ugly form-wise (which isn't helpful for a variety of reasons).

 

[Somnambulist]

First time doing deadlifts this morning for a few weeks....even my forearms are tired and I'm struggling to make a fist .

What are the benefits, if any, of doing front squats instead of back squats?

Not many if you’re not an Olympic weightlifter. For most people....

- If you can’t stay upright in the bottom position because of your limb lengths or mobility, you can’t use any meaningful load (in the sense of stimulus for your legs if you can back squat far more weight) because you’ll be tipped forward too much

- People overwhelmingly lose tightness in their upper backs performing front squats well before their legs fatigue, which similarly to not having a vertical bottom position leads to losing the bar forward and either having to use your arms to keep the bar up and using the back to help, or just dumping it. This results in the same problem as above as far as using effective loads

- The cross grip position isn’t very comfortable, but learning the full clean grip front rack requires a good level of mobility most people can’t be bothered to attain. There’s also the issue of pushing the bar too far into your neck and pressing against your carotid artery; at best a set gets cut early because of light-headedness, at worst you faint and drop the bar on yourself or the pins

For someone who low bar squats, who wants a greater quad-dominant variation in their training to build the legs more specifically, I’d much rather go with either a full range high bar squat, a Safety Bar squat if there’s access to that, or machines like the hack squat or belt squat if available.

If your front squats look like this then maaaaaybe for strength training in certain applications. For hypertrophy... it’s likely no better than doing overhead squats (that is to say, there’s much better things you could be doing that would be more effective). I pride myself on having developed a good looking front squat, but don’t actually use in my training cycles because it’s just not that useful compared to other stuff I could do.

 

[Somnambulist]

He's not going to come to the gym just to spot me.

The thing with leaving some in the tank is I'm not sure how well that works for stronglifts? How will I progress and know when to up the weight?

I'm considering using the roll of shame, failing that putting a bench in the squat rack but I've never seen anyone doing that so I'm not sure on the etiquette of it.

What I mean is, if you're on your 3rd set say, and you know you're not going to get that 5th rep, it's better to stop at 4 than grind and fail the 5th rep. You'll have a bit more in you for the remaining sets and failure isn't necessary for progress. IIRC with SL5x5 you'll go back the next session and attempt that weight again, and maybe you'll have those reps in you that you didn't last time, or maybe you won't and you'll back-cycle and work your way back up.

In any case, the act of adding more weight to the bar isn't what drives progress. The ability to add more weight to the bar is effectively a side-effect of training at sufficient volume/intensity frequently enough, and in order to maintain this effective level of volume/intensity over time, adding more weight is the easiest vehicle to get you there. It's an important to understand which way round the cart and horse are.

I'd always bench in a rack if I could, since you can adjust the height of the J hooks to suit what's best for you rather than the generic 1-2 heights the typical flat bench has. Only reason I don't is that all the racks in my gym are upstairs with the leg equipment and all the benches are downstairs with the upper body stuff.

 

[Somnambulist]

Interesting, thanks for this.

I guess I'll have to try and figure out where to stop. Really, the couple of reps of each set are really difficult for me but I have managed to push it so far.

If you haven't trained to absolute failure before, it can be useful because if you've never really pushed yourself to the point you can't perform another rep, it's harder to judge how many reps you really have in reserve. That said, failure can also be risky if form goes out the window, so it's a balance, especially early on in your lifting career between pushing yourself hard enough but not to the point where you're executing the lifts badly.

 

[Somnambulist]

Starting Strength =/= Stronglifts 5x5

Of the 3 Stronglifts would be my pick since
a) you get the practice the lifts more per session than you do with Starting Strength due to the additional sets (and SS these days has power cleans rather than rows, which nobody will do properly without hands-on coaching, and Mark Rippetoe can't even coach it himself)
b) learning how to row and OHP properly is good and rotating a few exercises is going to be more enjoyable for nearly everyone than just doing the same 3 movements over and over.

I don't really understand the obsession with doing faaaahves and think they're all a bit dull, but everything works for a beginner and it minimises the kind of aimless messing around in the gym most people do when they start out.

 

[Somnambulist]

I wasn't actually comparing Starting Strength to Strong Lifts.

I was wondering what peoples opinions where on this compared to Strong Lifts.

What I like about the this one is he has a full break down of how to progress it once things start getting tough to continue.

It's because you called it Starting Strength 5x5 (as SS is 3x5) in your post.

Anyway, a beginner will progress on ANY program and so the main reason to opt for a beginner routine that uses the powerlifting competition movements is because most gyms have barbells and racks (rather than a specific piece of machine equipment) and that you get started learning the movement patterns/skill component of these lifts from the get-go. Otherwise, there's nothing magic about those movements specifically, as good as they are, and some people just aren't built to do them effectively (while the ones that are tend to harp on about how amazing they are).

Andy of RippedBody coached me back in the day (when he coached beginners) on my first proper diet. That big 3 routine and the RPT one on his site were based off something Martin Berkhan of Leangains came up with - who loved minimalist programs - because Andy was a bit of a fanboy back then before Martin turned into a know-it-all guru, went mad and disappeared from the internet. He then got to know a lot of the evidence-based people in the online fitness world and worked with the guys from 3DMJ (a natural bodybuilding/powerlifting coaching team) to write The Muscle & Strength Pyramid books - which I highly recommend - and those have some great templates in for all levels of lifter, such as these beginner BB and PL programs with all the progression stuff covered. Martin on the other hand went insane and disappeared off the internet

Beginner Bodybuilding
Beginner Powerlifting

My current routine is based off the Intermediate Bodybuilding template, for what it's worth.

 

[Somnambulist]

That's fine. The whole point of a beginner routine is 'pick a few sensible movements, do them regularly, look to get better at them' rather than doing a load of random stuff, switching exercises all the time or what not, so if those 3 can be done pain-free do those. GBR is a physique-oriented upper/lower split over 4 days and obviously you want to do full-body 3 days a week, so no point trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

As you have no plans of competing, if you were able do a back squat variation that could be done pain-free like with a safety bar or back squats with straps to accomplish the same grip position, and your trap bar deads then you could still use a 3 day powerlifting-specific program since the focus is around maximising improvement in those 3 main lifts, you'd just be swapping them out for a variation you could perform.

I'm not genetically gifted, but consistency, diet and using a sensible progression scheme when the noob gains end go a long way: when I used to deadlift I got up to 150kg conventional @ 60kg bw (now 66kg at a similar bf level) and I can remember starting out with 60kg and that feeling heavy. My bench started at about 30kg or something poverty and I'm hoping(!) if things go well I might be able to squeeze a rep out at 100kg by the end of the year. #optimism I still barely look like I lift and train with a bunch of freaks, but I'm only competing against myself so it's all good.

 

[Somnambulist]

Not asking in a medical sense but anyone here gym (weights in particular) with hypermobility syndrome?

No, but my understanding is you will have to pay more attention to your end ranges/body awareness in certain exercises, so on something like a leg press for example you wouldn't over-extend the leg past what would be a normal lock-out position for people to avoid putting the joint in a vulnerable position.

 

[Somnambulist]

My gym is massively successful despite being meathead focused, but it is the most outer London branch of the Muscleworks brand who own a few gyms and not just 'any' gym. It killed off the other much smaller lifting gym in town... just needs more parking really but you can see why I go there rather than saving money and just using the Pure Gym in town along with the one by my work.

EDIT - now got a 4th hack squat, Watson reverse hyper + assisted Nordic curl and donkey calf raise upstairs to with the other rare bits like the Pitshark belt squat.

 

[Somnambulist]

@Somnambulist looks like a great find, needs more squat racks though

There's the full rack and half rack w/platform mentioned, then there's other 3 non-platform half racks upstairs. Downstairs there's another half rack w/platform and a full rack... which is literally only used for rack pulls (and bending barbells ).

Upstairs there's a bunch of half decent WL'ing bars, Texas power Bars, Texas squat bar, a ruined Texas Deadlift bar (thanks rack-pullers!) and then a couple of bars people I lift with occasionally have left at the gym: a Strength Shop safety bar, B*stard deadlift bar and for the IPF lifters a Rogue Ohio power bar which is only accessible via padlock if you're part of the powerlifting gang who compete and use it for stupid things. Got a couple of Texas power bars downstairs too - really appreciate the difference lifting with different bars now thanks to those.

 

[Somnambulist]

Working up to a single heavy set is probably ok for a complete beginner, but you aren't a complete beginner for very long and beginners usually have lousy work capacity anyway, so moarrrrr sets.

Makes no difference that it's a trap bar, other than that piece of equipment allows you to make it a bit more squatty or a bit more hingey depending on your positioning, so pick one (preferably the latter due to already doing a squat variation) and aim to be consistent with it.

 

[Somnambulist]

Got into the habit now on my first exercise of the day each session of working up to a heavy single at about RPE 8-8.5 before dropping back to my working sets... felt unusually strong on OHP and my single ended sticking 84% of bodyweight up pretty nicely (other than seeing stars from bracing so hard)... hopefully this year I can acquire holy grail 'can strict press 100% of bodyweight overhead' status.

 

[Somnambulist]

Similar in principle to Bulgarian weightlifting methodology: find a training max and use it as a guide for loading range.

The guy who adapted it for Squat Nemesis was also talking about doing it for deadlift ING and bench, so my guess would be it would apply to all compounds...

The Bulgarians would go up to a true 1RM every day - bananas of course, but they were on all the drugs, didn't care about breaking athletes etc - and then all these 'inspired-by' programs came out which lowered that from a true 1RM to a training max and then it isn't really Bulgarian anymore, but anyway, I do what in PL terms would be a conservative opener and it seems to work well as a predictor of how the actual work sets will go. I don't tend to adjust load too much, but knowing gains will occur as long as the relative tension and volume for that session is sufficient means I don't freak out now if in absolute terms it's a little less weight or I've lost a rep or something.

I sometimes do this. Combined with 8x3 at a heavy working weight I continually progress on most movements.

Yeah, my first movements are either 4 x 4-6 @ RPE 8-9 on my first upper and lower days and 3 x 6-8 on my lower, push and pull days, so ATM that's squat (+ sometimes rdl), bench (+ sometimes seal rows), Pit Shark belt squat, OHP and ring pullups. Objectively I don't know if it makes a difference, but subjectively when the weight goes back down for the sets the load feels slightly lighter than if I'd just done the usual warm-up scheme. Keeping to the RPE guidelines seems to be the biggest thing driving progress ATM because my inclination otherwise is to 'just one more rep!' it / add more weight even if the movement was getting uglier and uglier, and end up grinding away on everything, not recovering in time for the next session so ending up stuck at the same weights for ages. Who'd have thought training sensibly would lead to progress!?

 

[Somnambulist]

I got semi confused in what I wrote above. According to stronglifts you only deload if you fail 3 times in a row. So I'd have 3 attempts before considering it. I think I'll have to swap to 3x5 on squats soon anyway. I'm starting to really struggle with the rest of the workout after 5 heavy sets not to mention it's taking a long time because I'm resting about 3 mins in between sets.

Another question which is kind of unrelated. My main aim is to get stronger but I also want to build mass. Is there that much of a difference in how much mass you'll gain between strength based training and hypertrophy based training? I mean muscles will have to increase in size either way?

Not entirely (outside of beginners. There’s a difference between the size of the muscle, and your ability to efficiently recruit all of it, so very strength-specific programs will be biased towards the ability for you to use what you already have better for specific movements (like a powerlifters numbers going up whilst they stay in the same weight class), where as growth-specific programs will be biased towards less specific work, and more about working everything sufficiently (i.e. bodybuilders looking to grow a complete physique above all else).

If you’re not competing in a strength sport or have ambitions of being a physique athlete on stage with fake tan and posing trunks though, there’s a middle ground where your training mixes rep ranges and has a bit of variety either session to session or training cycle to training cycle, but not too much, and don’t really prioritise either extreme and you just get a bit bigger and stronger over time.

 

[Somnambulist]

You can mix if you want. Bare in mind most of these programs were created as basic strength programs for American athletes already training for a sport (I think it was football), hence the minimalist nature, because they didn't have time to train otherwise. Committing to a program is what you always want to be doing, just bear in mind there's more well-rounded options out there these days that cater for different goals, it's not just 5x5 or some UK Beef magazine bro-split.

 

[Somnambulist]

Couple months into really working at the gym, had a few hypertrophy cycles to start with and now in a couple strength cycles.

Can anyone suggest a few websites to browse through? Just looking for light reading relating to body building, diets, science behind it all, stuff like that just to give me a bit more knowledge

https://bodyrecomposition.com/ (dry but #facts)
https://rippedbody.com/ (easiest to digest)
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/ (more geared towards strength training)
https://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/ (eBooks but if you're serious about training and nutrition, these are comprehensive without being too dry and you should buy them).

 

[Somnambulist]

Other than caffeine there isn't anything else in pre-workouts (bar the ones with the amphetamine derivatives that got banned) that has any acute effect on strength/power, or does anything that would augment training adaptations. Much better use of money to just buy some caffeine tabs, dose at 3-6mg/kg 1hr prior to training with enough fluid to make sure you're hydrated sufficiently - since dehydration can really negatively effect performance - and spend the money on food instead. They often include other things that create noticeable sensations like the tingling you get from beta-alanine, which doesn't provide a performance-enhancing effect for weight training (it may be useful for endurance training though) but makes you think it's doing something other than being very expensive juice.

 

[Somnambulist]

It's hard to say without seeing a video. The biggest thing is to maintain the full body tightness/tension in your body over a set - e.g. your bench arch involves both the upper back being tight at one end, as well as the legs trying to drive the body back up the bench at the other, so if you lose the latter mid-way through a set everything else up the chain starts to go to pot. Another thing would be the cue of 'breaking the bar in half' to make sure your pecs are being recruited properly, as if not then it's all anterior delt and tricep and your body will automatically look for the easiest way to get the weight up which often means the shoulders doing something funky. The final thing would be patience - you don't need to pause every rep but equally if you're too rushed in your touch'n'go it can make your bath path inconsistent or cause you to lose tightness, so it's better to drop some weight and really focus on controlling the weight down to the contact point and driving it back up consistently than what you see most do in the gym which is let the weight free-fall than desperately try and heave it up (usually with 'it's all you mate' assistance).