THE 50K CHALLENGE: NEW MUSTANG ON THE WAY, BUT WOULD 50K BE BETTER SPENT ON ANOTHER MARQUE?

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Hi there

I think what I am going to do, is advertise the golf once M3 is back, it is nearly done, unless one of the work guys grab it.
Monitor the SVR and R AWD prices an have a large chunk of cash at the ready to pounce and to be aggressive buyer, in short try to get an SVR at 75k or a ginger regular R AWD at 60k, the more aggressive I buy one, the less the depreciation is and by sitting back for a few weeks I can judge if cars are just sitting around or actually selling, giving me more buying power and waiting for end of month/quarter to pounce when sales guys want to max their target/bonus.

Then think its best I put a good chunk down for whatever I go for, 40-50k, then remaining 20-30k on finance over two years with a balloon to keep monthly payment down. Speaking with a car finance company tonight who give better rates advice me that Jaguars are indeed one of the highest risk cars depreciation wise, as such they did advice if buying a regular version (none SVR) to try to get one 2yr-3yr old as they get hit hardest in first year. He believe a regular R purchased at 60-65k now around 1.5-2yr old would be worth around 45-50k in a further 2yr at which point he expects to be bottom, he said the coupe and AWD are more desirable as such hold value better. An SVR model is different and that in 2yr really a worse case example would be 60k and could still be at 65k plus I was advised.

Of course he did say a Porsche GT would eliminate risk of depreciation, but did also say any good GT3 is around 140k which is a big difference than 80k and he could not comment if he believes the prices will increase further or not.

Gonna look at other cars in this price region too and test drive, then as crazy as it sounds like today, a brochure turned up for the new Mustang from dealership I've ordered with.

Then I watched these videos:




They do shift very well indeed and the SVR seems much quicker off the line or it just got a good launch.
 
Man of Honour
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Time is now for the GT3. I think you would be happier in a 997 Gen2 than any of the cars you are considering here, the 991 would be perfect and Gen2 probably impossible now. I can loop you into people who can fund a car like this at sensible money. You are going to take a risk with any car like this but a GT3 is about as safe as car money gets. McLaren, Audi, Jag will all **** cash new, less so if you buy right. I paid £86K for my R8, great value for what I have and people always say to me "I bet you have lost nothing on that". Fact is, if I had to get out of it quickly it would be at a number starting with a 6, so they are wrong. Big boys game this, but with 50k-60K deposit I can see no point when you'd be in negative equity in a GT3, but I could see it in something else.
 
Man of Honour
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I'll talk to you tomorrow Gibbo when I have time. I can link you into several people who could get you into a GT3 Gen 1 at reasonable money. Gen 2 is going to be 160K-170K
 
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OK man chat tomorrow. :)
P.S. Are you saying your R8 is only worth 69k? I can't see that, S-tronic none plus models are all above 70k
 
Man of Honour
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From a dealer they are late 70's/early 80's still, but I have put miles on mine and I am not a dealer who will want to make 6k-8K on an R8 I would guess. So let's say it sits on a dealer for 76k-78k. I could do what most owners of these cars would do and clock it of course.....no, he didn't say that. Cars like this are not easy to sell privately as it's rare for people to have 80K in cash and finance houses also want an invoice. Now all things can be got around but it's not as easy as people who don't do it might think ;)
 
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A dealer offer me 72K for it with 8K on the clock about 12 months ago...as an example. I told them to go bum a cat as that was mad money.
 
Caporegime
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Whilst I’m no expert and indeed never been a huge Porsche fan, out of all the cars that have been listed I can’t help thinking the GT3 is the car I envisage you driving far more than say the Jag or indeed the Mustang.

And, as I say, being no Porsche fan, it’s the GT3 that makes me think “Ooh nice!”when I see one on my travels, far more than the others, and it’s the GT3 that seems the rare beast.

Whatever you choose, your in a fortunate position, enjoy!
 
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If reducing your exposure to depreciation is a key concern have you considered an Aero 8? The newer ones look much less 'cross-eyed', and tick the V8, automatic, 'sense of occasion', noise and performance boxes rather well. They are of course RWD though.

Edit: if Aero styling inst quite your thing then you can get the Plus 8 which is the same powertrain and alu chassis but with traditional styling.

 
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Soldato
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I think that's probably a little too agricultural and lacking in creature comforts for Gibbo's planned usage.

They are great fun, though. Effectively ran one for several months, didn't want to give it back...

MozQXkZ.jpg
 
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A dealer offer me 72K for it with 8K on the clock about 12 months ago...as an example. I told them to go bum a cat as that was mad money.

Really had not realised, had a look around last night, 2013/14 S-tronic V10's are now hovering around 65k with Plus models around 70k so you are right, they have certainly come down. But if your keeping it then like you said and a few others have told me, do not worry about it, enjoy the car, at some point it will bottom. As the older V10's all seem to be above 50k, it does seem like the scraps of the barrel of still hovering around 50k so I suspect 60k is the bottom to buy one, obviously to sell one who knows if taking easy route of dealership.


Really given it so much thought and all I can consider:

- New Mustang @ 49k, maximum of 10k finance and just regular finance or bank loan at around 4% for 24 months. I'd spend around 5k on it, a bit extreme and a year later with my spend on it I'd estimate value at 40k, so all in all a 10-15k ownership cost. Interest cost would be minimal, about 1k as I'd pay it off within 12 months anyway.
- Jag SVR @ 75k (going to just offer 75k and stick to my guns), Maximum of 40k finance, 3yr with balloon. I'd spend nothing on it, because nothing to really do and I'd not want to have any issues with warranty, my only cost would be consumables, servicing and warranty extension in 2019 to maintain value and cover cost of any expensive failure. In a years time I suspect it would be worth 70k, 2yr 60k and in 3yr 50-55k looking at the values of the not so special regular V8 models. The SVR has a lot going for it to help value, crazy high buy price, coupe, AWD and flagship model which are rarer, sold in less numbers.
- 991.1 GT3 @ 125k, found a nice yellow one, a few for sale at 115k but they are all white and I do not like them in white, looks a bit boring. I'd increase deposit to 50k, but that is then 75k on finance which to me seems outrageous and I really dislike the idea off, but will chat with Housey and some others later to see how other people do this. The plus side is in 3yr time it should still be worth over 110k, might even hold its value but of course I will put plenty of miles on the car, talking 6000-10,000 per year which may not sound a lot but on expensive machinery its generally more than normal.


Mustang: I am a fanboy, you all now that, I've always liked them and they are typical a very capable GT handling level of car, the new one will be handling wise pretty much on a similar level to a regular M4 if you option the mag ride type stuff but it has a far better engine, that has character and loves to rev and sounds a million times better. It is a car that gets Ferrari levels of attention, but not the jealous type and they are really nice place to be, even if a bit on the cheaper side but the actual cabin and infotainment system is nice and excellent. It is pretty quick too 0-60 in 3.9, 0-100 in 8.5 and 1/4 in 12@119 so it is by no means slow and it is modding friendly. Handling awesome in dry, a bit of a lemon in the wet but keep it smooth and you will be fine, but a hot hatch or other marque will generally be more capable in wet on a British B road. Get to keep M3 too!

SVR: My last time in an F-type was a V8S rag top, it was a short test drive and the car never really left an impression on me except for the epic noise, did not get to truly experience acceleration as it just blitzed its tyres and sales guy did not approve. But then I got one for a day, albeit the V6S but as a road car I found it really superb, I thoroughly enjoyed the playful chassis, the gearbox was nothing short of fantastic and it made me grin and laugh like a big kid for most of the day, even more so than my Mustang did due to its outrageous stock exhaust and this was not even the V8. So for I feel the SVR is a major attraction, I see it as a British Mustang, now I know for some that is a downside because its not 40k, it is 80k and as such some here just don't like it or think its worth the cash. But like the Mustang I absolutely love the idea of that gorgeous and obnoxious sounding V8, the pops, gargles, farts, bangs, gunshots that is me through and through. Then the absolutely sheer and brutal acceleration it should offer and I am sure it does, in fact it should feel like my first Mustang, identical power figures its just a bit heavier but has AWD and much quicker gear box so should feel just as savage and actually be quicker and in my old Mustang that level of power never got old as it was just the right balance of power for its chassis, only ever an issue in cold/wet which as I ultimately got older went from fun (sliding) to a bit annoying when you just wanted to make relative fast progress on a wet road. So for me the SVR has the looks, noise, ease of extracting its performance and its proper fast. 3.1 to 60, 7 to 100 and around low 11's in quarter mile in a stock car that is consistent due to its ZF8. It really is a me car and very much in my eyes like my old Saleen Mustang, epic looks, in your face, stupidly loud and stupidly fast, but just more up market and easier to extract its performance which now I am older I want. I also get to keep the M3!

911 GT3: A dream car, that rides superb on road like SVR, don't be fooled by the GT3 badge, they also make fantastic road cars and even though it is RWD the mechanical traction is only stuff the Jag could dream off, though of course the AWD of the Jag might be easier and more desirable on a wet road. Performance stats even though it has less power it is pretty identical to the Jaguar due to it weighing a good 300kg less and PDK just being super quick, though I must admit I think the ZF8 had a little more character and is probably a little easier to launch, as no LC just stomp and go, I believe GT3 has LC which you don't use in daily situations, but not 100% sure. Buying a GT3 now would make me do something I don't really want to do, sell the M3, not because I need to, but that much finance lingering over my head, I'd just want to clear chunks of it off as quick as possible, I'd sell the M3, my coins and probably stop enjoying life so much to just clear the finance off, mentally for me its a bit of a worry as I tend to like to own things or have the bigger majority stake in the car so if I have a change of mind I can sell easily without hassle.


Problem is I love all three of them for different reasons, they are all super rare sights on the road, OK in my neck of the woods anyway, I am sure some of you see 100 Mustangs, 20 GT3's and 10 SVR's every day. They all appeal to me in a different way to the point I really want both the SVR and the GT3, that is impossible by the way. The Jag I love the noise, the V8 and the AWD would make it a great road car all weather that looks special. The GT3 I love the precision and the cabin noise from winding its motor out and just the fact its a scalpel and it would be as good on track as it is the road, that is also a downside, all that money tied up into finance I'd want to do track days, which would dramatically increase the running cost. My old 911 cost quite a lot of money to run due to the vast amount of track days I did, brakes, tyres, servicing it seems cheap at first but combined with cost of track days, the fuel and before you know it your spending several thousand a year which is fine if you own the car or the finance is small.

I am just trying to be level headed, right now SVR is favourite because the car has an appeal to me I cannot quite put my finger on. My only concern is it being worth half what it is today in say 3yr time, that is a bit too much to stomach. Of course only an issue if I decided to sell it. Hopefully Jag will release a new SVR next year with a turbo charged motor that sounds rubbish, has no character and thus the old models start too appreciate, or on the flip side they keep the SC V8, make it even better, keep the price the same at which point yes my SVR would become worth even less. DOH!

That is pretty much my thoughts, no decisions made yet, giving it plenty of thought and I feel I don't need to rush, plenty of SVR for sale including two blue ones at 80k, I am just going to watch and see if they move, if they sell I am sure more will appear, if they do not sell it gives me more ammunition to barter with a dealer selling.


P.S. Or an R8 V10 S-tronic at around 70k-80k, but as we can see those are also depreciating and though I like them, I just feel the SVR is more a me car, there is something about the R8 which i cannot put my finger on but I am not wanting one as much, maybe because they are a bit too easy to drive fast and not as easy to be playful in. Can't put my finger on it, but to me just seems a bit less special, zips up flame proof suite.
 
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Caporegime
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Having read the above, whilst I think the GT3 suits you the best for your requirements, it almost seems a bit pointless given you already have an absolutely epic track day car, are you planning to track the new car or leave the M3 for that task? (assuming you didn’t opt for the GT3)

Didn’t the old 911 ultimately go because track days in it were pricey - and I’d imagine risky - another thing about the 911 was something your mate Ben said to me when I dropped my e38 in to him for its work, we were discussing cars and yours came up rather than discussing you ,he said - and I’m massively paraphrasing here - whilst you liked the 911 it didn’t give you the pleasure you seek from a car, it didn’t to his mind put the smile on your face the M3 for example does.

Whilst the GT3 is very different to your old 911, I wonder if that would be an experience repeated albeit from a different angle....

Strikes me your almost deciding on the M3’s fate just at the point when you get it nigh perfect, I know you’ve not decided yet but think you need to think long and hard as to which direction you go, whilst I still think the GT3 is the best of the three your considering (it damn well should be given the premium!) I don’t think it makes sense for you even though it’s the one I see you behind the wheel of if that’s not a contradiction!

What a fantastic dilemma regardless!
 
Man of Honour
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P.S. Or an R8 V10 S-tronic at around 70k-80k, but as we can see those are also depreciating and though I like them, I just feel the SVR is more a me car, there is something about the R8 which i cannot put my finger on but I am not wanting one as much, maybe because they are a bit too easy to drive fast and not as easy to be playful in. Can't put my finger on it, but to me just seems a bit less special, zips up flame proof suite.

I thought the same way, then I drove the plus. There are loads of posts from me on this very website talking about the R8 not being my sort of car. Go figure :D

To be fair I am spoilt having the R8 and a supercar.
 
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I thought the same way, then I drove the plus. There are loads of posts from me on this very website talking about the R8 not being my sort of car. Go figure :D

To be fair I am spoilt having the R8 and a supercar.

Very true, I am doing this wrong, need to get down to VW and get myself a Polo, no one will dare race me. :D
 
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Having read the above, whilst I think the GT3 suits you the best for your requirements, it almost seems a bit pointless given you already have an absolutely epic track day car, are you planning to track the new car or leave the M3 for that task? (assuming you didn’t opt for the GT3)

Didn’t the old 911 ultimately go because track days in it were pricey - and I’d imagine risky - another thing about the 911 was something your mate Ben said to me when I dropped my e38 in to him for its work, we were discussing cars and yours came up rather than discussing you ,he said - and I’m massively paraphrasing here - whilst you liked the 911 it didn’t give you the pleasure you seek from a car, it didn’t to his mind put the smile on your face the M3 for example does.

Whilst the GT3 is very different to your old 911, I wonder if that would be an experience repeated albeit from a different angle....

Strikes me your almost deciding on the M3’s fate just at the point when you get it nigh perfect, I know you’ve not decided yet but think you need to think long and hard as to which direction you go, whilst I still think the GT3 is the best of the three your considering (it damn well should be given the premium!) I don’t think it makes sense for you even though it’s the one I see you behind the wheel of if that’s not a contradiction!

What a fantastic dilemma regardless!


The SVR I'd do one short track day, to experience it, but do I want to track it as such, NO, I don't see it as a track car, I mean it weighs 1800kg and is AWD, its a road car, not a track warrior.

Yes I hear what your saying about the 911, I loved it but in a different way it was more about its driving dynamics rather than loving it for being naughty, silly and stupid like a Mustang or SVR would be.
Yes you are indeed right, I've owned a 911, yes a GT3 is godlike in 911 world, but yet the fundamentals are still the same, just the lmits are higher and everything is sharpened and the senses become more sensitive, but ultimately its just a progression from my last 911. In a way the GT3 is more a brain purchase, done for depreciation and ability rather than a heart purchase like a Mustang/SVR.

Agree again about the M3, I don't want to get rid, it is my car, it is more my car than any other, I made that car what it is, there is nothing I have not touched on it and it is immaculate, I'd challenge anyway to show me a nicer and cleaner example. It has the very best modifications and it is fully restored using BMW OEM or better quality parts and is now fully resprayed. But even before I had it fully restored there were a few people offering me strong money for it which I declined, I may not drive it much but I most definitely do not want to part with it. Plus as it ages it will only continue to appreciate due to it being such an excellent example on a well modified E46 M3. End of the day its better than a CSL in every way and I can make this comment, I owned a CSL so know exactly how it drove and accelerated, give me my M3 any day. :)
 
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