The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.

Rich_L said:
Ok I will :p

I may or may not be married to a US citizen and therefore currently doing this..

The point being, that the US, Canada and Australia still admit tons of immigrants*, and AFAIK there are no laws saying that

immigrant workers should be paid less, or be forced to be 'less' competitive to native workers.

*USA has 37 million legal immigrants, 12% of the population
*Canada has 6 million immigrants, 18% of the population
*Australia has 5.5 million immigrants, 25% of the population
*UK has 4.5 million immigrants, 7.5% of the population
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1) What percentage of those immigrants are part of the workforce.

2) Only the UK out of that list allows unlimited numbers of immigrants and doesn't do any checks whatsoever on suitability (such as having any money, any skills, being able to speak English, not having a criminal record).

3) Only the UK out of that list gives benefits such as money, free healthcare and free housing to people who have paid in little or nothing.

4) The UK is by far and away, by many times over, the most densely populated country out of those four.

These and other reasons mean that immigration into the UK has a far more profound effect than the immigration into those other countries.

And I am taking your figures at face value and not bothering to dispute them, even though the UK govt and the ONS themselves admit they don't know the true level of immigration, either legal or illegal.
 
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dirtydog said:
No, both proven facts.

Hell you even admit the latter one is true yourself
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Yeah because that equates to some sort of draining of the system.

You obviously missed the point about tourists. Maybe we should not only reform immigration but also ban people from going abroad? How are they not contributing to our economy if they're out spending in Spain or where ever?

The other often brought up piece of nonsense is the benefits point. That is complete rubbish otherwise we'd be getting loads of free money.
 
Chimerical said:
Yeah because that equates to some sort of draining of the system.

You obviously missed the point about tourists. Maybe we should not only reform immigration but also ban people from going abroad? How are they not contributing to our economy if they're out spending in Spain or where ever?

The other often brought up piece of nonsense is the benefits point. That is complete rubbish otherwise we'd be getting loads of free money.
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Are you trying to tell me that if a immigrant family that's been here lets say 10 years
have put more or equal amounts of tax into the system then a family that have been here since since they can remember?
 
dirtydog said:
Where did I say all immigrants get 'loads of free money'?
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deuse said:
Here they get freebies with out putting much into the system and bleed it dry.
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/\

you said:
No, both proven facts.
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Freebies equals free money in my book. Or free services, whatever that is, amounts to the same thing.

deuse said:
Are you trying to tell me that if a immigrant family that's been here lets say 10 years
have put more or equal amounts of tax into the system then a family that have been here since since they can remember?
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Errr yes. I can think of a couple real world first hand examples as it happens.
 
I also think another huge problem is a good sized percentage of the general public cannot tell the difference between asylum seekers and legal immigrants :)
 
Chimerical said:
/\

Freebies equals free money in my book. Or free services, whatever that is, amounts to the same thing.
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What I actually said: some immigrants get money

What you think I said: All immigrants gets loads of free money

Two different things.

Are you saying no immigrants get cash benefits, free houses and free healthcare? :confused: Surely not because there is a wealth of proof that they do.
 
dirtydog said:
Nor can the government given that they let failed asylum seekers stay here anyway.
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haha that is a good point actually :D

You know I have never understood how at the the peak of 9/11 and the 7/7 bombings we were on high terrorist alert in the UK. Yet asylum seekers were able to enter the Country and then disappear with zero idea where the hell they are. Still do to this day to. Makes you wonder how our security services deal with a terrorist threat at all :D
 
dirtydog said:
What I actually said: some immigrants get money

What you think I said: All immigrants gets loads of free money

Two different things.
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Fair enough. I withdraw my accusation.

Are you saying no immigrants get cash benefits, free houses and free healthcare? :confused: Surely not because there is a wealth of proof that they do.
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They get free healthcare although if they're paying taxes this shouldn't be problem. Legal immigrants do not get automatic cash benefits for just coming into England and I don't know where the free houses thing comes from unless there are some very specific reasons involved.

Asylum seekers however are a different discussion.
 
Chimerical said:
They get free healthcare although if they're paying taxes this shouldn't be problem.
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Woah hang on. Let's pause here. Just think about that for a moment.

What if the taxes they pay doesn't cover the cost of their healthcare?

What about the fact that each immigrant using the NHS puts further strain on a service which we know can barely cope with the existing population?

What about the fact that each immigrant using the NHS means the existing population need to wait longer to get their operation? In which time they could die?

We already know that immigrants have swamped the dental system, meaning the existing population has problems finding an NHS dentist.

Do you know what, even if immigrants do work and pay taxes, they still put a big strain on the NHS, to the detriment of the existing population.

And of course large numbers of sick people flood here because they can get free healthcare, who are known as NHS tourists. And Britain has a big sign up saying we are mugs, please enter here for free healthcare.
 
deuse said:
OK cool post them with proof please.
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Well I'm not going to list personal details on Ocuk.

Hard to imagine though that you cannot concieve of an immigrant earning more and paying a higher percentage of tax than a native. And your ten years rule is irrelevent too because the indigenous family will have cost more in child benefits, education, possibly healthcare and related OAPs will have cost more in terms of pensions, etc so they already have it tough because they're starting with a deficit compared to immigrants.
 
Chimerical said:
Well I'm not going to list personal details on Ocuk.

Hard to imagine though that you cannot concieve of an immigrant earning more and paying a higher percentage of tax than a native. And your ten years rule is irrelevent too because the indigenous family will have cost more in child benefits, education, possibly healthcare and related OAPs will have cost more in terms of pensions, etc so they already have it tough because they're starting with a deficit compared to immigrants.
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Do you think the British taxpayer should pay child benefit to Polish mothers who actually live in Poland?
 
Chimerical said:
Well I'm not going to list personal details on Ocuk.

Hard to imagine though that you cannot concieve of an immigrant earning more and paying a higher percentage of tax than a native. And your ten years rule is irrelevent too because the indigenous family will have cost more in child benefits, education, possibly healthcare and related OAPs will have cost more in terms of pensions, etc so they already have it tough because they're starting with a deficit compared to immigrants.
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I was saying that a family that has just come here cannot pay as much into the system that a family
that has lived here for say blip.
 
deuse said:
I was saying that a family that has just come here cannot pay as much into the system that a family
that has lived here for say blip.
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Well a family that has just come here hasn't cost anything either so its completely irrelevant. What're you expecting, pre-emptive tax payments?

This is just nonsense. You have no argument.
 
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