The alternative St Patrick's thread

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There are degrees of neutrality, just as there are degrees of unfaithfulness: one may forgive a woman an occasional cold spell, but not her continued and smiling repose in other men's arms. Even in the grossest betrayal, however, whether of the marriage vow or the contract of humanity, there could be variations of guilt: for example one could understand, though one could not condone, the point of view of countries such as Spain or the Argentine, which had affinities with Germany and did not disguise their hatred of England and their hoped of her defeat. They had never been married to democracy in the first place...But it was difficult to withhold one's contempt from a country such as Ireland, whose battle this was and whose chances of freedom and independece in the event of a German victory were nil. The fact that Ireland was standing aside from the conflict at this moment posed, from the naval angle, special problems which affected, sometimes mortally, all sailors engaged in the Atlantic, and earned their particular loathing.
Irish neutrality, on which she placed a generous interpretation, permitted the Germans to maintain in Dublin an espionage centre, a window into Britain, which operated throughout the war and did incalculable harm to the Allied cause. But from the naval point of view there was an even more deadly factor: this was the loss of the naval bases in southern and western Ireland, which had been available to the Royal Navy during the first world war but were now forbidden them. To compute how many men and how many ships this denial was costing, month after month, was hardly possible; but the total was substantial and tragic. From these bases escorts could have sailed further out into the Atlantic, and provided additional cover for the hard pressed convoys: from these bases, destroyers and corvettes could have been refuelled quickly, and tugs sent out to ships in distress: from these bases the Battle of the Atlantic might have been fought on something like equal terms. As it was, the bases were denied and escorts had to go "the long way round" to get to the battlefield, and return to harbour at least two days earlier than would have been necessary: the cost, in men and ships, added months to the struggle, and ran up a score which Irish eyes a-smiling on the day of Allied victory were not going to cancel.
From a narrow legal angle, Ireland was within her rights: she had opted for neutrality, and the rest of the story flowed from this decision. She was in fact at liberty to stand aside from the struggle, whatever harm this did to the Allied cause. But sailors, watching the ships go down and counting the number of their friends who might have been alive instead of dead, saw the thing in simpler terms. They saw Ireland safe under the British umbrella, fed by her convoys and protected by her air-force, her very neutrality guaranteed by British armed forces: they saw no return for this protection save a condoned sabotage of the Allied war effort; and they were angry - permanently angry. As they sailed past this smug coastline, past people who did not give a damn how the war went as long as they could live on in their fairy-tale world, they had time to ponder a new aspect of indecency. In the list of people you were prepared to like when the war was over, the man who stood by and watched while you were getting your throat cut could not figure very high.
 
Please rewrite that to read southern ireland, as the north sent many men to fight in both wars. And also provided a lot of materials for the spitfire
 
In other copy and paste news.....

Anyhoo, I wish people would stop dwelling on things which are long in the past, it gets you no where fast!
 
Christ almighty another anti ireland thread from the flag waving Glasgow Rangers fan. :rolleyes:



Get down off yer soap box. Someone please close this crap as all this child can do is whinge.
 
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Gerard said:
Christ almighty another anti ireland thread from the flag waving Glasgow Rangers fan. :rolleyes:



Get down off yer soap box. Someone please close this crap as all this child can do is whinge.

TBH what else did you really expect!!
 
jezsoup said:
In other copy and paste news.....

Anyhoo, I wish people would stop dwelling on things which are long in the past, it gets you no where fast!



Problem is he's living in the past. Just another bitter knuckle dragging sectarian who has to drag up crap thats long since over.
 
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someone want to just point out the highlights to save me struggling to read it all? ive a headache as it is!
 
MNuTz said:
someone want to just point out the highlights to save me struggling to read it all? ive a headache as it is!



Highlights would be the following:


ugg ug me make flame thread about same old crap as i always do. ugg me hurt knuckles after dragging them on ground for so long, me need life ug ugg.
 
MNuTz said:
someone want to just point out the highlights to save me struggling to read it all? ive a headache as it is!
Big dog has a chip on his shoudler about how we all celebrate St PAtricks day and the whoel loving the irish thing. Basically hes living in the past and needs to move on, everyone else has!
 
jezsoup said:
Big dog has a chip on his shoudler about how we all celebrate St PAtricks day and the whoel loving the irish thing. Basically hes living in the past and needs to move on, everyone else has!

we all celebrate it cuz its a great excuse for a pissup!!!

Im going over to ireland next year to celebrate it with some irish mates, one rule though - no eating all day!! :eek:

lets turn it into a "i love st paddies day" thread then just to wind him up :D
 
big_white_dog84 said:
I'm living in the past?

Is St Patrick is alive today?

...and linking my views to the football team I support makes you the knuckle-dragging sectarian, not me.


My arse, knuckle dragger.
 
jezsoup said:
In other copy and paste news.....

Not copied and pasted. I wrote this out, albeit copying from 'The Cruel Sea'.

If you think you have read it before it is probably from one of my previous posts - I have posted it once or twice in the past when people have been posting about all things great and Irish.

On a similar note, can anyone name the two countries that voted against an EU (or whatever it was called back then) arms embargo on Argentina when they invaded the Falklands.
I'll give you a clue - one of them was France, the other speaks English and eats potatoes.
 
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