*** The AMD RDNA 4 Rumour Mill ***

[TNA]

It’s funny how people have different versions of the same events. The majority of the kickback about DLSS (and RT) was because it wasn’t available on the 1000 series and expensive Titan series. So most of the moaning was from Nvidia owners. Given most people own Nvidia it stands to reason, considering the significant market and mind share they have.

AMD fans were already used to Nvidia doing the proprietary crap and having GPUs that didn’t do the latest Nvidia fad. They just sat back and watched until the fad caught up with reality. I mean we are still a few years away from when truly good RT is actually on mainstream GPUs (sub £400).

So it isn’t the AMD “fans” having a sudden change of heart at all, they’re just happy that AMD have made actual measurable progress in the areas that were important… well according to all the Nvidia fans anyway

Note: I had a 980Ti, 1080, 2080, 3080 and now a 4080. I obviously just follow whatever Nvidia marketing throw my way

Meh. Many supported and wanted it to be open source and shunned Nvidia's closed source method.

I could go search and find all these but can't be asked. Going ti go play KCD2 now

Oh and the post was not aimed at you btw. So not sure why you are posting all your Nvidia GPU's

 

[ICDP]

This should be thereabouts where the 9070XT RT hits on the heavy titles that nvidia usually would have stridden out. Also bear in mind I have for over four years a 3090 and I know this was not quite able to squeeze out great RT fps. I don't think the 4070Ti was much better than it, at least from the charts I recall seeing?

Apologies, I don’t mean extreme RT cases and did specify that PT is not what I mean by mainstream.

To put it another way, FSR4 allows me to play CP2077 max psycho RT settings at 4K performance (which looks very good in FSR4) and it runs at 60FPS. For a £600 GPU it’s doing very well.

Edit: Just to add some reference. My 4080 at the same settings allows me to use DLSS4 balanced. So one setting up on the upscaling for similar FPS. The only way for PT to work is to use ultra performance DLSS and at this point it has become noticeably blurry.

Path tracing is not really an option on either GPU if you are trying to output at 4K.

 

[t2na]

But FSR4 doesn't work on other cards does it, even if it's worse on other cards? That's the difference.

I don't really have an issue with it only being on the new gen stuff, same as I didn't when Nvidia did it, it's just the way the attitudes vary depending on which manufacturer does it. Of course the downside, as I said before is that it greatly limits how many people can use the FSR4.
It wasn't too long ago that in the DLSS3 vs FSR3 debate people were saying that DLSS was better but FSR3 was "good enough". Now AMD has caught up with FSR4 it's suddenly being hailed as a game changer. Again, I don't doubt it's better (upscaling isn't something I've really used much so far), I just find it funny how when it was DLSS3 vs FSR3 it wasn't a big issue, but when it's FSR4 vs FSR3 it's a huge deal.
RT is a bit the same. Not too long ago, it wasn't important, it didn't really improve things, people just turned it off. Then 2(?) games don't let you turn it off and suddenly RT hugely important. Like a few months ago nobody could've predicted that RT might get used more. Then the 9000 series got released and it suddenly hit people that RT was still a thing so maybe it's is important for a graphics card to do it well. I've not played many games that use RT that heavily or enforce it so I don't have much of an opinion on it myself. It just makes me laugh how the attitudes change once AMD aren't trailing as much.

I'm trying to get a 9070 XT (without paying silly prices) so I'm pleased that AMD have improved all of these things. I originally wanted a 5090, back before we saw the prices and learnt of the numerous issues with the 5000 series. Then I dropped down to a 5080, but this too was plagued with issues such as high prices and stock issues. So I reluctantly considered a 5070Ti but this too inherited the issues of it's siblings. So I've turned my attention to the 9070 XT and while I'm a little disappointed with the performance sacrifice that would've been the case with any of the cards below the 5090 (I mean even that was a little disappointing). Other than that the improvements AMD have made means it doesn't feel like I'm sacrificing too much.

But FSR works on other cards, it's FSR4 that is exclusive to the 9000 series of cards at this point.

Just because Intel don't call it XeSS4 and XeSS doesn't mean that it's not the same. I get the point you're making but I do think it's extrapolating a little what was said at the time. There are always people that are over the top supportive, one way or the other. Particularly on forums like this! I just spent a good chunk of time reading someone's post here about a 100-150RPM difference in fan speeds and the impact on thermals vs. noise...

I do think a lot of the reason why people thought FSR3 was 'good enough' was because it was the only option available to them. I was on a 3070 before I moved to an AMD GPU - and I was happy doing that move because my intention was to just not use upscaling and brute force games with raw raster for similar/slightly better uplift compared to the 3070 using DLSS Quality/Balanced at 1440p.

Then I grabbed a 4k 240hz OLED monitor - and using FSR at anything other than quality was a pretty meh experience across the board. It was alright, nothing great but seeing the comparisons to DLSS really highlighted that it wasn't as good, simple as that - and it was annoying seeing Nvidia users be able to rock DLSS performance, have the game look better than 1440p native and FSR quality - whilst getting frames. FSR4 is good, it's nice that we now have a competitive alternative to DLSS and one more element that potentially means that Nvidia can't charge the additional % cost they do for access to their suite of features.

I think attitudes changing around RT are really because more people can now actually experience it at a decent price entry point. It's the classic thing of not having access to something and brushing it off as 'no biggie' - used to do it as kids at school, now we do it as adults with our PC parts... I never bothered using it on my 3070 (apart from that Lego game??) and only really first used RT properly with the PS5 Pro! It's nice that I've been able to play a few more games now using RT - but again, I'll take more consistent/higher frames every time compared to a slightly prettier game at a lower fps.

Sorry - not one to usually leave excessively long posts (unless it's in the monitor sub forum or discussing mice/keyboards).

 

[Mercurial]

What you've never had, you don't miss. A bit like preheat on an electric car.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

But FSR works on other cards, it's FSR4 that is exclusive to the 9000 series of cards at this point.

Just because Intel don't call it XeSS4 and XeSS doesn't mean that it's not the same.

Yeah, that's a fair point.

I think attitudes changing around RT are really because more people can now actually experience it at a decent price entry point. It's the classic thing of not having access to something and brushing it off as 'no biggie' - used to do it as kids at school

I think this is the heart of the point and why I find it funny. People dismissing something they (or a certain brand) can't use as unimportant and then when they (or a certain brand) can use it it's suddenly game changing. This isn't a new thing, I'm sure we can all think of examples of it in the past too. I'm also fully aware it's not a 1-sided thing.

 

[Dicehunter]

But FSR works on other cards, it's FSR4 that is exclusive to the 9000 series of cards at this point.

I think RDNA3 will get FSR4 at some point but it will be a heavily watered down version as RDNA3 simply doesn't have the FP8 instruction set that FSR4 requires.