On a positive note. Vega will probably get better with time as drivers improve ect. Not so good for those who want the best of the best but more so those who don't upgrade their gpu with every release.
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Poll: ** The AMD VEGA Thread **
- Thread starter TNA
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Just going to ramble/speculate on AMD's plan here.
So I'm going to assume that top spec gaming Vega with all drivers running properly is going to compete with an overclocked 1080/1080ti. Lets assume that Poor Volta was an actual jab at volta (I have a hard time believing that they would do this intentionally).
One thing that adored mentioned once was "that there is no such thing as a bad GPU just a bad price". What if vega is actually competing with the 2070? I thought about this and in adored last video, an AMD exec mentioned in some event that they were going to offer significant performance gains for the given price point, similar to what Ryzen did. Aiming at the 2070 market segment would make this statement true.
Looking at Nvidia record. The 970 came out and offered 780 performance for the mid range market. The 1070 came out and offered 980ti performance for the mid range market. We can assume that the 2070 will come out and offer 1080/1080ti performance for the mid range.
But what if AMD beats them to it. What if AMD plan is to come in and offer 1080/1080ti performance at 1070 (or less) price; exactly what Nvidia would want to do with 2070. Where would that leave the 2070 when it launches in ~6 months time?
For people with 1080 and 1080ti this will be a disappointment (but then again you are a minority
), but for everyone else that's going to be great. For people running 290x and furys; to those running 970 and 980 (maybe even 1070); that would be a significant performance boost for them. Personally I'm still running my 970 that i got on release; I don't plan on upgrading this year but if something came out at a really good price my plans could change. IMO I think the people in that price bracket are significantly more than x80 and x80ti gaming markets (probably more than both combined) and AMD is aiming for them.
Now many people will say that Nvidia could lower the price of the pascal range (potentially start a price war with AMD); which I agree with that will help shift the last few units of pascal cards. I don't think they will though because firstly it doesn't solve the 2070 problem; which is that Vega has already attacked its market segment. Secondly it would make the 2070 launch more awkward if 2070 came out around the same price as the discounted 1080/ti while offering the same performance. The last thing Nvidia wants to do is start a price war that spreads to the Volta launch because Nvidia couldn't/wouldn't undercut them because they can't afford to; they need to recoup their R&D budget which is orders of magnitudes bigger than AMDs.
The big question is could AMD release a HBM2 card that cheap. If the main target for vega cards is the server market (I can see them offering bundled discounts with epyc systems) and if there plan is to recoup most of the R&D costs from the server business then maybe, they could.
TLDR: RX Vega is going to offer 1080/ti performance at 1070 prices to compete with the 2070 and take as much sales from it as possible before it launches because at that price segment the market is bigger.
What do you think plausible business plan, or would it not work?
So I'm going to assume that top spec gaming Vega with all drivers running properly is going to compete with an overclocked 1080/1080ti. Lets assume that Poor Volta was an actual jab at volta (I have a hard time believing that they would do this intentionally).
One thing that adored mentioned once was "that there is no such thing as a bad GPU just a bad price". What if vega is actually competing with the 2070? I thought about this and in adored last video, an AMD exec mentioned in some event that they were going to offer significant performance gains for the given price point, similar to what Ryzen did. Aiming at the 2070 market segment would make this statement true.
Looking at Nvidia record. The 970 came out and offered 780 performance for the mid range market. The 1070 came out and offered 980ti performance for the mid range market. We can assume that the 2070 will come out and offer 1080/1080ti performance for the mid range.
But what if AMD beats them to it. What if AMD plan is to come in and offer 1080/1080ti performance at 1070 (or less) price; exactly what Nvidia would want to do with 2070. Where would that leave the 2070 when it launches in ~6 months time?
For people with 1080 and 1080ti this will be a disappointment (but then again you are a minority
), but for everyone else that's going to be great. For people running 290x and furys; to those running 970 and 980 (maybe even 1070); that would be a significant performance boost for them. Personally I'm still running my 970 that i got on release; I don't plan on upgrading this year but if something came out at a really good price my plans could change. IMO I think the people in that price bracket are significantly more than x80 and x80ti gaming markets (probably more than both combined) and AMD is aiming for them.Now many people will say that Nvidia could lower the price of the pascal range (potentially start a price war with AMD); which I agree with that will help shift the last few units of pascal cards. I don't think they will though because firstly it doesn't solve the 2070 problem; which is that Vega has already attacked its market segment. Secondly it would make the 2070 launch more awkward if 2070 came out around the same price as the discounted 1080/ti while offering the same performance. The last thing Nvidia wants to do is start a price war that spreads to the Volta launch because Nvidia couldn't/wouldn't undercut them because they can't afford to; they need to recoup their R&D budget which is orders of magnitudes bigger than AMDs.
The big question is could AMD release a HBM2 card that cheap. If the main target for vega cards is the server market (I can see them offering bundled discounts with epyc systems) and if there plan is to recoup most of the R&D costs from the server business then maybe, they could.
TLDR: RX Vega is going to offer 1080/ti performance at 1070 prices to compete with the 2070 and take as much sales from it as possible before it launches because at that price segment the market is bigger.
What do you think plausible business plan, or would it not work?
Caporegime
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I can't see them doing 1070 prices, as even their 580s are not that low 
If Volta is a big enough step forward then they could redefine prices all over again - nothing stopping them doing a top to bottom refresh of the Pascal lineup either so that a theoretical 2070 didn't impact on the 1080ti and they've never stopped short of that kind of thing of devaluing top end cards relatively quickly before.
Sounds very interesting. I think those at Amd are smart enough to know that right now they cannot compete with Nvidia pound for pound, why not target volta in the fashion you mention, as this generation is essentially coming to and end.
If they put Vega out now they can sell to all those that have been waiting with freesync monitors, coming from Fury's, 390 ect. Then in 6 months or so when Volta is released, they an tweak/gain some efficiancy ect and refresh the line up to compete with the 2070 as you say.
They may even have something else in the pipeline that they can release to compete with 2080/ti. Who knows? Heard someone mention about Vega 20?
All speculation of course but I like your thinking
If they put Vega out now they can sell to all those that have been waiting with freesync monitors, coming from Fury's, 390 ect. Then in 6 months or so when Volta is released, they an tweak/gain some efficiancy ect and refresh the line up to compete with the 2070 as you say.
They may even have something else in the pipeline that they can release to compete with 2080/ti. Who knows? Heard someone mention about Vega 20?
All speculation of course but I like your thinking
I can't see them doing 1070 prices, as even their 580s are not that low
That price has nothing to do with their MSRP though.
The Gamers nexus clock for clock video pretty much shows there is something going on with Vega FE drivers at the moment. It points more towards Vega features not being enabled yet. A lot of the pro ones can come down to a focus on optimising for those applications and having more than 4GB of memory.
When did they redefine the price previously? Was it with the pascal range I wasn't paying attention when they launched.
Forgot to mention crossfire. We know it is something they are working and we have seen near 100% scaling on Rx580 in sniper elite 4; They might rely heavily on it to deal with a 2080/ti. Maybe Vega 20 is a dual GPU card that works as one GPU. (So technically not crossfire.
Probably comes with a 320mm RAD and 1200W power supply
Forgot to mention crossfire. We know it is something they are working and we have seen near 100% scaling on Rx580 in sniper elite 4; They might rely heavily on it to deal with a 2080/ti. Maybe Vega 20 is a dual GPU card that works as one GPU. (So technically not crossfire.
Probably comes with a 320mm RAD and 1200W power supply
Is that scaling in DX12 or DX11, since with DX12 the scaling can be far closer to 100% since the game enginer knows what is going on and can directly control the GPU's and their synchronisation far better than any man in the middle software.
AMD really need to get some Explicit or linked mGPU code examples going on GPUOpen.
That is the retailers fault, not AMD.I can't see them doing 1070 prices, as even their 580s are not that low
Soldato
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what are these mythical 'features' that people keep mentioning?
I think it was DX12
Stream binning, tiled rasterisation, primitive shaders, primitive discard accelerator (fiji never had one), HBCC etc.
AFAIK stream binning requires the developer to choose when its a better approach over traditional rasterisation, not sure what the state is with tiled rendering, etc. and it seems that the primitive discard stuff requires some front end changes on a per application basis to utilise. Most of these things it has come to light aren't fire and forget hardware functions like some of those features are on nVidia GPUs i.e. nVidia just chucks brute force primitive setup at the GPU's shaders in an inelegant fashion but it works as there is enough "horse power" there to brute force past the bottleneck.
all of them can be done in drivers and tuned per application. Nvidia does a lot of that already to the point where they completely replace a games shader code with their own if required.
Just going to ramble/speculate on AMD's plan here.
So I'm going to assume that top spec gaming Vega with all drivers running properly is going to compete with an overclocked 1080/1080ti. Lets assume that Poor Volta was an actual jab at volta (I have a hard time believing that they would do this intentionally).
One thing that adored mentioned once was "that there is no such thing as a bad GPU just a bad price". What if vega is actually competing with the 2070? I thought about this and in adored last video, an AMD exec mentioned in some event that they were going to offer significant performance gains for the given price point, similar to what Ryzen did. Aiming at the 2070 market segment would make this statement true.
Looking at Nvidia record. The 970 came out and offered 780 performance for the mid range market. The 1070 came out and offered 980ti performance for the mid range market. We can assume that the 2070 will come out and offer 1080/1080ti performance for the mid range.
But what if AMD beats them to it. What if AMD plan is to come in and offer 1080/1080ti performance at 1070 (or less) price; exactly what Nvidia would want to do with 2070. Where would that leave the 2070 when it launches in ~6 months time?
For people with 1080 and 1080ti this will be a disappointment (but then again you are a minority
Now many people will say that Nvidia could lower the price of the pascal range (potentially start a price war with AMD); which I agree with that will help shift the last few units of pascal cards. I don't think they will though because firstly it doesn't solve the 2070 problem; which is that Vega has already attacked its market segment. Secondly it would make the 2070 launch more awkward if 2070 came out around the same price as the discounted 1080/ti while offering the same performance. The last thing Nvidia wants to do is start a price war that spreads to the Volta launch because Nvidia couldn't/wouldn't undercut them because they can't afford to; they need to recoup their R&D budget which is orders of magnitudes bigger than AMDs.
The big question is could AMD release a HBM2 card that cheap. If the main target for vega cards is the server market (I can see them offering bundled discounts with epyc systems) and if there plan is to recoup most of the R&D costs from the server business then maybe, they could.
TLDR: RX Vega is going to offer 1080/ti performance at 1070 prices to compete with the 2070 and take as much sales from it as possible before it launches because at that price segment the market is bigger.
What do you think plausible business plan, or would it not work?
For this to be their plan it'd have to be 1080 Ti performance for £350-400, or 1080 performance for no more than £300.
Unless Nvidia are going to break with convention, the 2070 will be 1080 Ti performance for around £400. And the 2070/2080 die will likely be a lot smaller than Vega, probably hovering around 400mm2.
So unless GloFo are cheaper than TSMC per mm2, Vega would be making a lot worse margins than Volta.
On the flip side, if this wasn't AMD's plan it basically HAS to be their plan now. Unless they have a magic driver, Vega's performance is going to be 'meh' at best against Pascal, but look completely stupid against Volta. Unless it undercuts/competes with the 2070 on price as you suggest.
Well most here aren't expecting AMD to under-cut nVidia by £100, due to the size of the chip and HBM2, etc.
If it was £50 cheaper, I think many could justify the extra cost of the nV based on lower power consumption. Not in terms of saving money on your bills, but in terms of less cooling required, quieter PC, etc.
If RX Vega is a >300W monster that's only going to appeal to those who don't care about their PC sounding like a vacuum cleaner, or are putting the card under water.
A saving of £50 wouldn't offset that in my mind at least, and I'm a very price-conscious guy.
But then if we wait for Volta the power saving could be an order of magnitude greater in favour of nV.
Really not sure, if the performance and power usage is accurate as leaked, who will want a Vega at all.
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