Problem is though this late in the day even if they position the price well for bang for buck they aren't going to be making the sales volume needed and that is going to have an impact internally whether direct funding or resulting in less investment from other parts of the company and with the inclusion of HBM2, etc. they are going to struggle with price and profitability to get a good bang for buck position - it might seem like a good thing for consumers if they manage it but there is more to it than that in respect to whether it is ultimately a disaster or not for AMD.
-
Competitor rules
Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.
Poll: ** The AMD VEGA Thread **
- Thread starter TNA
- Start date
- Status
Problem is though this late in the day even if they position the price well for bang for buck they aren't going to be making the sales volume needed and that is going to have an impact internally whether direct funding or resulting in less investment from other parts of the company and with the inclusion of HBM2, etc. they are going to struggle with price and profitability to get a good bang for buck position - it might seem like a good thing for consumers if they manage it but there is more to it than that in respect to whether it is ultimately a disaster or not for AMD.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 May 2007
- Posts
- 10,222
It's been done before. Nvidia had to do it as there fx series was in a similar position to the 9800 as Vega looks to be to Pascal. They came back with the 6800 which was a great Gpu. Same again with AMD and the 2900/3800 to the 4870. One wrong step in design direction can lead to a lot of pain. It's even possible AMD knew this would be the case in the gaming segment and have just went for a good compute card. Vega looks pretty decent for that segment barring the power use.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Nov 2009
- Posts
- 25,709
- Location
- Planet Earth
I think the 9700 series is more a case of that than the FX - ATI had not really competed that well for the previous two generations with the 7000 and 8000 series,as the Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 series were fantastic cards. This is why it was such a shock when the 9700 PRO launched months before the FX and on an OLD process node.
They made the exact same mistake with their GPUs recently.
Nvidia made GPUs that performed well with game engines and APIs around at the time. AMD hoped they could force developers to change APIs and designs to suit their particular GPU designs, all while ignoring the DX11 landscape. VEGA was supposed to go back to improving DX11 performance and remove the bottlenecks but doesn't really look like they have succeeded.
There is a fine line between future looking and ignoring the present. AMD seem to think the world will change around them, despite not even having a market share majority.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 May 2007
- Posts
- 10,222
Yea good point. I forgot that the 4 series ti cards were great compared to what Ati had at the time. The 9700 was a game changer, i often forget about the 9700 as i was just starting out in PC gaming at that time. Had a mx420 at the time. I often give the 9800 more credit as that was my first proper gaming Gpu and my first experience of an Ati card, as you can imagine it was a very positive experience and still the biggest jump in performance i have ever had through an upgrade.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Nov 2009
- Posts
- 25,709
- Location
- Planet Earth
I think the main issue is not even that - AMD is making one size fits all GPUs,and Nvidia has split their lines. It's basically what ATI did with the HD4000 and HD5000 series, and Nvidia as a result has done their own "small die" strategy and it means AMD has lost the performance per mm2 and performance per watt battle and the latter is happening since they need to clock their cards to the limit.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 May 2007
- Posts
- 10,222
I agree with you in your point but without AMD trying to drive things on we probably wouldn't be moving forward as the big two seem to like staying put in older tech. I think AMD really need to keep driving but more through words than design as it's hurting them. Have to say though Intel with there original I7 brought out a cpu well ahead of it's time as it's still a viable gaming cpu atm due to overclocking. My PC atm is the current best bang for buck gaming platform i have ever bought.
I think people just have to bite the bullet and do away with it. I for one don't think free sync is worth the compromise of putting up with Such a card.
It's like refusing to buy a car because you still have an old saddle in the shed!
Not worried about the bill but am worried that I wont have enough juice in my PSU to do what I want in terms of overclock or similar later down the line. Power efficiency in even the high end PSU's are still when it's only 50% loaded which also keeps it lasting (generally) so not the cost to run the PC being an issue but the other things that go with it when we are talking about such high figures. Again if it was 50watt adrift then fine but it really appears to be almost double.
Hey Gregster, sure the initial 'results' for big desktops are not great but as I already pointed to earlier in the thread, the main thing AMD needed to fix is competition in the laptop space. With a 1080+Intel quad+Gsync Alienware laptop costing the thick end of £3k inc. (razor equivalent is £4k) I really am desperate to see AMD to launch anything in the same ballpark as the 1080. They have the CPU, the display tech and everything they need to get a competitive mobile product out there for 2018.
Vega never did and does not need to be 1080ti or Volta speed because mobile requirements are different *unless* you really need the best possible mobile VR experience and I can totally understand this as an edge case.
The only disappointment I have is that the Vega thermals appear so big that if they stick a full fat gaming Vega into a laptop that it will throttle pretty hard and also, in terms of timing, they might be up against Volta once the AMD mobile solution is launched.
I really don't want to be paying so much money for my laptops and this is down to Nvidia and Intel having no competition. I can't wait for Vega to launch and I would be aghast if it would have been cancelled.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 May 2007
- Posts
- 10,222
Your problem there is you bought Alienware 
. My mate just bought a 7770hq, 1070, 500gb ssd and 16gb ram with a 17 inch screen for £1700. Adding the 1080 brought it up towards £2k. It's definitely not as bling as the Alienware but performance wouldn't differ much in games.
It would still be nice to see a Ryzen Vega setup but power usage don't look to great to be putting it in a laptop. A lot of undervolting with a core clock drop would have to be done so performance might not be there.
. My mate just bought a 7770hq, 1070, 500gb ssd and 16gb ram with a 17 inch screen for £1700. Adding the 1080 brought it up towards £2k. It's definitely not as bling as the Alienware but performance wouldn't differ much in games.It would still be nice to see a Ryzen Vega setup but power usage don't look to great to be putting it in a laptop. A lot of undervolting with a core clock drop would have to be done so performance might not be there.
Last edited:
How much is the 1080mxm ?
Soldato
- Joined
- 26 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 10,758
- Location
- West End, Southampton
I wouldn't even touch a laptop for the purpose of gaming, been there and done that. Got a £1600 so called gaming laptop in the cupboard that has been dead for 2 years and will cost the absolute earth to repair. Was the worst purchase ever, once bitten twice shy and all that.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Nov 2011
- Posts
- 11,521
Even when AMD did mobile they didnt support it very seriously, thats the last thing they need on their plate at the moment.
Poor Maxwell maybe but even then only just!
Amen!
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Oct 2003
- Posts
- 15,990
- Location
- Chengdu
The good old days when GPUs were genuinely interesting, advancing at a good rate. Cards that could be unlocked, massive performance boosts. Proper price wars.
- Status