Poll: The Budget

[elmarko]

Because the left-wing stubbornly refuse to see the big picture so much so it almost makes me think that they are collectively intellectively inferior. People who earn 150K and above tend to be extremely clever and have sussed out life for themselves.

Either by being smart enough to get to the jobs that pay these amounts or business owners who know how to run business, but the likes of realBabelfish and Xmoon will have you believe the money just fell onto their laps.

The daily mail (I'm guessing what you see as a bible) says otherwise (left wing people tend to have higher IQ's).

 

[stockhausen]

Wholly predictable (and extensively leaked) and disappointing.

According to the millionaire Osborne, giving the super rich a 10% tax cut whilst allegedly dramatically increasing the tax they will pay in other ways will not only result in a greater return to the Treasury but will also have those same people flooding back into the country and stop them dodging tax.

Yeah, right

 

[PMKeates]

The important thing here is that wealth is not making a difference to this, it is just a by product.

Re-read two of my earliest statements in this discussion:

I imagine the key differentiator is the quality of primary and secondary education.

I actually said the key difference is the quality of primary and secondary education, and within that I included basic values and work ethics as they are learned behaviours, not money. Money is just a facilitator.

You've then gone on to say:

A rough summary is basically a child's intelligence is roughly 50% hereditary and 50% environmental, with the environment mostly being related to the child's family environment.

I agree, and I think the above shows we agree. However, I disagree with:

The important thing here is that wealth is not making a difference to this, it is just a by product.

Money is not simply a by-product, it is a facilitator and does make a difference. Poverty impedes education and intellectual growth, and wealth helps exploit what natural and learned advantages a child has. Your original statement that I took issue with was:

This is just nonsense. In the UK anyone can go to university if they have the ability

My comment was that any implication that the UK is a utopia of equal opportunity and meritocracy is a sretch of the imagination. We have good systems in place to try to afford people every opportunity, but they are not universal and bad environments (i.e. lack of good learned behaviours i.e. work ethic, and lack of good primary and secondary education) significantly impede people's chances.

If you are born in to a disadvantaged family without good intellectual genetics, you are pretty much a lost cause; without any particular natural ability, and without a good environment and education to foster what you do have, the chances of you becoming a success are slim. Conversely, if you have those same genetics and are born in to an advantaged family, you will be afforded significantly more opportunities. Completely take attitude or work ethic out of the equation, and the simple fact that your parents have money means that they can provide some aspects of a better environment. If they were to ship you off to Eton at a young age I'd think you'd fare better than at your local comp.

All the pieces that are involved are complimentary, and if you a particularly defecient in either genetics, environment or afforded opportunities you are going to very much struggle. I do not believe that the afforded opportunities that wealth can provide are unimportant.

 

[koolpc]

There are always some winners and losers on budget day. I am not a pensioner but feel they have been shafted. Like some woman said, they have paid into the government all their lives only to be dealt wrongly at a time when they need it.

The country needs to do the absolute best possible for the retired. Especially those who only have their state pension to live on.

 

[meghatronic]

There are always some winners and losers on budget day. I am not a pensioner but feel they have been shafted.

I thought the basic pension was going up? And in cash terms there was no tax rate change?

 

[Freakbro]

I thought the basic pension was going up? And in cash terms there was no tax rate change?

Just depends how you look at it. They are no materially worse off, but since the age related portion of their allowance is not being increased (removed over time) they will be worse off in the future than they would have been if things had continued as normal.

Anyway, who cares about the coffin dodgers....I can hear the howls of anger now when the police (Looking at you VonS ) and students when they realise whats really going to hit them in the pocket.....Greggs sausage rolls to increase by 20%!

 

[Irish_Tom]

I thought the basic pension was going up? And in cash terms there was no tax rate change?

In line with inflation which is perfectly normal. It's only the biggest rise for however many years because inflation is so high (or was in September when this rise was decided).

It's not some amazing added benefit for pensioners, it nearly keeps them at a level position.

The new rules on pre-tax allowance for pensioners is independent of this and will leave them less well off in the long run.

 

[Ahleckz]

I'm more interested in their alcohol policy coming out shortly. I do hope they wise up and don't go down the route of minimum pricing. All it does it punish those who commit the awful crime of being young or poor.

 

[elmarko]

I'm more interested in their alcohol policy coming out shortly. I do hope they wise up and don't go down the route of minimum pricing. All it does it punish those who commit the awful crime of being young or poor.

Indeed, I grow tired of increasing the cost of something being used as a way of de-incentivising the behaviour - the only message it gives out is that it's OK to get trashed & cause trouble as long as you are rich.

Just another regressive tax which hits the lowest earners hardest.

Bullingdon club anyone?.

 

[koolpc]

.

Anyway, who cares about the coffin dodgers

Idiotic statement as one day you may be a pensioner with little to live on, who had given their all to society, who had worked hard for family and friend only to be treated like dog muck by the government and people like you!!!!!

 

[elmarko]

It's funny how they don't mention the QE/inflation, which is effectively another stealth tax.

 

[antijoke]

How much is this personalised tax bill going to cost to send out to people?

surely that's just wasted money?

 

[robgmun]

Idiotic statement as one day you may be a pensioner with little to live on, who had given their all to society, who had worked hard for family and friend only to be treated like dog muck by the government and people like you!!!!!

Nope not me, I've learnt from a very early on that you are an idiot if you are going to relay on pensions to live in your own age, no pension will. I've organised a scheme where i will have a livable wage until my death. Can't say what it is for obvious reasons (not lest because the loony-left here will bleat about how unfair it is)

 

[koolpc]

Not everyone can afford to have a private pension or saving scheme etc.

 

[scorza]

How much is this personalised tax bill going to cost to send out to people?

surely that's just wasted money?

I heard 4p for every tax payer. What annoys me is the enormous waste of paper, the fact it's another letter through my letter box I'll have to open, read and shred, and the fact that the information is already out there for anyone who cares.

 

[scorza]

Not everyone can afford to have a private pension or saving scheme etc.

Even if you have a private pension it's no guarantee that you'll end up with a decent pension - see the Equitable Life scandal for example.

 

[antijoke]

I heard 4p for every tax payer. What annoys me is the enormous waste of paper, the fact it's another letter through my letter box I'll have to open, read and shred, and the fact that the information is already out there for anyone who cares.

Exactly my thoughts, it really just seems like a total gimmick.

 

[Freakbro]

Idiotic statement as one day you may be a pensioner with little to live on, who had given their all to society, who had worked hard for family and friend only to be treated like dog muck by the government and people like you!!!!!

Whoosh!!!

I know sarcasm is hard to detect on the internet, but since you didn't pick up on it....

 

[Glaucus]

The new rules on pre-tax allowance for pensioners is independent of this and will leave them less well off in the long run.

, with the increase in personal allowence, then they haven't even lost out on that. What pensioner allowence 10k? Which is wwewhat the new personal free allowence will be and ontop of that they want the 10k personal allowence to increase yearly, but that expends what the next government does. So they lost out a ightly increase for two years. After that it's back to normal.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I was severely disappointed to see that the only increase in tax on alcohol is inflation. I can't find the article now but if I find it I'll post it, but on the BBC earlier I read that this year deaths due to alcohol have increased by 25%. Surely this would suggest to the government that they should be increasing the price of alcohol to attempt to coutner the mass use of what is, essentially, poison.

Does anyone know, though, whether they're doing something else unrelated to tax? The minimum price thing perhaps...?