The car that runs on air....

[Dogbreath]

Couple of problems with this. Compressing air is very inefficient, lots of the energy goes into heating the air rather than increasing pressure (typically a multi stage compressor might reach 60%, a typical single stage compressor *much* lower than this). Couple this with the likely poor efficiency of the two stage engine used in this car and the overall energy efficiency is not looking good. The fact that fossil fuelled pre-heaters are needed for longer ranges are a double whamy in the energy consumption stakes.

Secondly, there is always a problem with how to provide heaters for the cabin when not using a combustion type engine (and if the pre-heater isn't used). An expansion engine such as this will actually get cold during use rather than hot, due to the expanding air. Cabin heaters in IC engined car normally have an output far higher than practical for electric heating.

 

[tbz_ck]

Yeah but think about how the first petrol engines were similar?

Performance and refinement will come with time (and demand from the market)

I personally don't think it needs to be as good as a conventional petrol engine to generate demand. If it is sold with a personal compressor able to be stored at home, it could become an excellent choice for town travel in particular.

 

[tbz_ck]

Couple of problems with this. Compressing air is very inefficient, lots of the energy goes into heating the air rather than increasing pressure (typically a multi stage compressor might reach 60%, a typical single stage compressor *much* lower than this).

Secondly, there is always a problem with how to provide heaters for the cabin when not using a combustion type engine. An expansion engine such as this will actually get cold during use rather than hot, due to the expanding air. Cabin heaters in IC engined car normally have an output far higher than practical for electric heating.

The kinetic energy of the moving car could be used to charge a small battery which in turn could be used to power a small eletric heater? Not something that cannot be overcome surely....?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Now I think of it, I really can't see this working.

I'm sure it could generate enough power, but the problem is going to be range. I'd be surprised if it go's more than a mile before the tank is dry.

 

[tbz_ck]

They were quoting 200 miles on that vid if I recall correctly (and I may not! )

 

[Simon]

The kinetic energy of the moving car could be used to charge a small battery which in turn could be used to power a small eletric heater? Not something that cannot be overcome surely....?

Energy doesnt magic itself from no where. If you're using energy to charge a battery then it isn't moving the car.

An electric car would be more efficient. Using the electricity direct rather than wasting it compressing the air.

 

[tbz_ck]

Energy doesnt magic itself from no where. If you're using energy to charge a battery then it isn't moving the car.

An electric car would be more efficient. Using the electricity direct rather than wasting it compressing the air.

I'm not sure you understood my concept. Apologies if you did, because then I didn't understand your reply!

I'm simply saying that given there will be motion generated by the compressed air motor through the wheels, then that motion could in part be used to charge a small battery (think dynamo on a push bike). The battery being charged could power a small heater (potentially?) overcoming the "lack of heating in the cabin" problem.

 

[wolvers]

Energy doesnt magic itself from no where. If you're using energy to charge a battery then it isn't moving the car.

Actually, we're working on a kinetic energy recovery system for vehicles at the moment and it works quite well.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Hmmmm

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=42563&in_page_id=34

 

[Dogbreath]

I'm not sure you understood my concept. Apologies if you did, because then I didn't understand your reply!

I'm simply saying that given there will be motion generated by the compressed air motor through the wheels, then that motion could in part be used to charge a small battery (think dynamo on a push bike). The battery being charged could power a small heater (potentially?) overcoming the "lack of heating in the cabin" problem.

He did understand, and his comment still applies. However you look at it, you are extracting energy from the engine, and then converting it into electrical energy. This would have to be done anyway to provide lighting etc. but the problem is that a useful cabin heater would require a significant amount of energy, i.e. killowatts rather than a few dozen watts.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I'm not sure you understood my concept. Apologies if you did, because then I didn't understand your reply!

I'm simply saying that given there will be motion generated by the compressed air motor through the wheels, then that motion could in part be used to charge a small battery (think dynamo on a push bike). The battery being charged could power a small heater (potentially?) overcoming the "lack of heating in the cabin" problem.

Yes, it would work of course. But the energy you get will ultimately be coming from the compresses air, and therefore you will loose a bit of range / power driving the vehilcle.

Which is exactly the same as what happens with any electric car.

 

[DingleBerry]

I'm not sure what the efficiency of these engines is but I've heard 30% mentioned when talking about charging then discharging batteries (although that was for bog standard car batteries). If this is true then 60% for a multistage compressor is actually very attractive (lets face it you'd never use a single stage for these pressures). The weak link then is how the pressure to kinetic conversion compares to electric to kinetic.

I was going to suggest using the generator as a brake, dunno if its enough for heating but who knows, might do it. Conversely it might cool enough for free aircon...dunno.

Can't argue with there clearly being more work to be done on the engine. One presumes that 200mile number came their sums with an hypothetical good engine combined with their stored energy.

 

[DingleBerry]

Having said all that I've just seen the metro report and this is all doomed to fail because the car mings. People are retarded and fickle like that. This technology will now probably always be associated with that abomination!

 

[tbz_ck]

I'd admit it mings and looks a bit "lightweight". Whether thats by design or just the way its supposed to look I don't know.

Why do they always stick these designs in minging looking cars ffs

 

[Andr3w]

why do they make these cars so dam ugly

 

[wolvers]

She sure is ugly! I wouldn't be seen dead in one.

(apologies for shallow nature of post)

 

[Von Luck]

..

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Producing hydrogen involves splitting hydrocarbons... lots of energy required and what do you do with the other products of the process - methane/carbon monoxide?

Hardly reducing our dependancy of oil is you need to crack oil. Hydrogen is produced from the electrolysis of water, its the fuel cell application where you can use Gas to seperate the hydrogen which creates energy rather than requiring it. The Honda website FCX feature covers this well.

 

[Simon]

I'd admit it mings and looks a bit "lightweight". Whether thats by design or just the way its supposed to look I don't know.

Why do they always stick these designs in minging looking cars ffs

If it was a proper car the engine wouldn't move. It has to be light due to the gutless engine

 

[Simon]

Actually, we're working on a kinetic energy recovery system for vehicles at the moment and it works quite well.

The energy doesnt magic itself from no where.

BMW have braking energy recover system already and Im sure others do. The alternator is draws maximum power from the engine when the car brakes, thus meaning it has to charge the battery less when the engine is crusing along.

Stealing kinetic energy to heat the car means you are reducing the power output to the wheels, either resulting in less power, or less range.