The clean green energy thread - Lets talk about alternatives to nuclear power and how we can save th

mrbios said:
I'm probably being an idiot but if nuclear power creates steam to power turbines why does it need to be nuclear material to do that?

Surely you could have the same system with some industrial size elements to heat water to steam (like a huge mega kettle lol) and then have the power it generates from the turbines power itself so that it's a self sustaining system, meaning you only need a source of of power to start it up.

Obviously it must not be possible or just not possible to create the required amount of heat else someone would have done it or similar already :p
Click to expand...

Maybe because you would use more electricity to make the steam than the electricity you get out. Next door would be the power station making the electricity in the first place that you are better off using....

Funnily enough they also create steam. Just like Thomas the Tank engine it might be burning coal, or if not coal, gas or oil. This is why they are fossil fuel power stations ;)
 
Nice to see they are trying to get as much energy out of the coal though rather than the simple options. I'm not sure where they stand with CCS either but thats a bit of a crock in terms of getting as much energy out of the same amount of coal.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Nice to see they are trying to get as much energy out of the coal though rather than the simple options. I'm not sure where they stand with CCS either but thats a bit of a crock in terms of getting as much energy out of the same amount of coal.
Click to expand...

CCS is inherently un-economic (apart from the first 10 - 20%, assuming it is pumped into an oil / gas field for tertiary extraction).

Also, would you want to live near several million cubic meters of CO2? I know I wouldn't :p Prob not so bad in some areas, but a complete pain to try and implement anywhere with any sort of regular tectonic movement.
 
SkScotchegg said:
[..]
And...If you haven't seen it already, maybe you should watch that electric car documentary... [..]
Click to expand...

You watched a notorious conspiracy theory video and took it far too seriously.

I suggest you learn more about batteries, electric cars and why they're not yet viable.

I like the idea of electric cars, I really do, but they're just not workable yet. We need massive improvements in batteries and a huge increase in electricity generating capacity before mass scale EVs are feasible (and even then only if the future batteries use far, far less rare materials).
 
AcidHell2 said:
Again from what I can find this is simply no longer the case if ever.
Click to expand...

From what I can find, it still is the case. You'll pay £20K for a nominally 2KW panel that will produce much less than that in the UK because the rated values for PV panels are peak, i.e. the noon on a clear day in summer on the equator thing that I referred to. That £20K might generate £200 a year in electricity. That's the best PV panels money can buy at the moment. It's simply not sunny enough here.
 
mrbios said:
I'm probably being an idiot but if nuclear power creates steam to power turbines why does it need to be nuclear material to do that?

Surely you could have the same system with some industrial size elements to heat water to steam (like a huge mega kettle lol) and then have the power it generates from the turbines power itself so that it's a self sustaining system, meaning you only need a source of of power to start it up.

Obviously it must not be possible or just not possible to create the required amount of heat else someone would have done it or similar already :p
Click to expand...

Think about it a moment - you're talking about converting electricity to heat to boil water to drive a dynamo to convert movement to electricty...and you expect to get more electricity than you started with? Where would it be coming from?

What you'd end up with in practice is a large-scale way to waste electricity, although it might prove an interesting challenge for scientists and engineers to minimise the wastage.
 
Angilion said:
Think about it a moment - you're talking about converting electricity to heat to boil water to drive a dynamo to convert movement to electricty...and you expect to get more electricity than you started with? Where would it be coming from?

What you'd end up with in practice is a large-scale way to waste electricity, although it might prove an interesting challenge for scientists and engineers to minimise the wastage.
Click to expand...

Well i was thinking of something that would be started using other electrical means but once started would be self sustaining.....obviously that would only be viable if the output was higher than the input - the scientific side of doing that is obviously harder than i thought :p
 
Angilion said:
Think about it a moment - you're talking about converting electricity to heat to boil water to drive a dynamo to convert movement to electricty...and you expect to get more electricity than you started with? Where would it be coming from?

What you'd end up with in practice is a large-scale way to waste electricity, although it might prove an interesting challenge for scientists and engineers to minimise the wastage.
Click to expand...

Easy.

The only kettle Id allow to use the original electricty would be the staffroom kettle = wastage minised and I can buy the component already validated from currys for £20! :p
 
Angilion said:
From what I can find, it still is the case. You'll pay £20K for a nominally 2KW panel that will produce much less than that in the UK because the rated values for PV panels are peak, i.e. the noon on a clear day in summer on the equator thing that I referred to. That £20K might generate £200 a year in electricity. That's the best PV panels money can buy at the moment. It's simply not sunny enough here.
Click to expand...

Umm, your figures are miles out.

Most PV run @ about £4k / kW installed (approx, varies if using polycrystaline or amorphous silicon). Either way you £20k for 2kW is way out.

Average solar radiation in the UK (varies with latitude) is ~ 1008 kWh / m2 / year.

So a 2kW array will produce approx (depends on may variables, so I have gone for a low figure here) 1500 kWh / year.

1500 kWh * £0.33 = £495 (feed in tariffs) / year
1500 kWh * £0.08 = £120 (electricity saved, very basic tariff) / year


That's a £615 saving / year

On a £8000 start-up, that's a 13 year payback. The feed in tariffs are good for 25 years.

That's overly simplified (depends if you get a loan, etc), but PV is viable (albeit only with FITs).
 
Angilion said:
From what I can find, it still is the case. You'll pay £20K for a nominally 2KW panel that will produce much less than that in the UK because the rated values for PV panels are peak, i.e. the noon on a clear day in summer on the equator thing that I referred to. That £20K might generate £200 a year in electricity. That's the best PV panels money can buy at the moment. It's simply not sunny enough here.
Click to expand...

A 3-4kw system makes 5000kwh a year real world figures for UK and costs £5k per 1KW system. Now it depends how long they last and price of electric.Say average price is 15p it would take just under 27 years to pay back. So yes it is viable, just not much cheaper than current electricity, But then it doesn't need to, it only needs to match current electricity prices. Although in Europe panels are 40% cheaper and obvious generate more power. which is why Italy are loving them. from protoype panels they are expected to half teh price and double out put within the next 5-10years. That's ignoring feed in tarrifs which make it even more yummy.
 
Has anyone posted up the Bill Gates TED talk yet?

If not, this is really interesting, he's an awesome chap:)

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/bill_gates.html

At TED2010, Bill Gates unveils his vision for the world's energy future, describing the need for "miracles" to avoid planetary catastrophe and explaining why he's backing a dramatically different type of nuclear reactor. The necessary goal? Zero carbon emissions globally by 2050.
Click to expand...
 
joemo13 said:
If your normal personal car turns electric, then what about lorries, supertankers and planes?
Click to expand...

What about them, they can carry on using it. Is TNT already buying some electric vehicles and using x% bio fuel in their fleet. Lots of lorrys do set routes, either between hubs or a round which is very similar in mileage day to day and they have years of data collection. Better still create roll on roll of train stations for freight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom