The clean green energy thread - Lets talk about alternatives to nuclear power and how we can save th

It's been mentioned earlier in this thread but what is wrong with nuclear fission produced from Thorium instead of Uranium? It sounds too good to be true, which usually means that it is - but it seems India is going for it in a big way, and China and Norway. From what I've seen (admittedly non-scientific) it's more abundant than Uranium, less chance of a meltdown and doesn't produce nuclear waste that can we weaponised.

Are the conspiracy theories true? That plans to build a new generation of Thorium powered nuclear power stations were shelved back in the '70s because they needed Uranium based fission for nuclear weapons production? But why would Japan go that route since they don't want nukes?
 
it's 4th gen reactor so cost per Kwh is a little more, but obviously this is a stable price.

In Uk we stopped all our research as well :(
 
They will probably do something incredibly clever like shut down all the nuclear power stations and give us pretty windmills to look at.

The people will soon make them turn them back on. Try telling the country it can't have a cuppa during the break in the football/corrie/whatever.
 
Originally posted by Aod:
you're thinking of the General Electric EV1, which was, by all accounts, a fairly reasonable EV.
The only two problems with it, are the same two problems that every battery-powered-electric-vehicle faces: it cost FAR too much, and it's range was pitiful.

Case in point? GM were only able to lease around 800 of them. they couldn't sell them due to government regulations.
Furthermore, the car was available in two generations, the first used Lead-Acid batteries, the second used NiMH batteries instead.

Lead Acid Batteries have a Specific-Energy of only 30-40 Watt-hours per Kilogram (Wh/Kg), and NiMH batteries have a specific energy of up to 75Wh/Kg.

as a result of the poor energy-storage capabilities of those battery technologies, i quote this from Wikipedia:
"Cars with the lead-acid pack had a range of 80 to 100 miles, while the NiMH cars could travel between 100 and 140 miles between charges."

best case-scenario, 140 miles between charges? considering a charge takes hours, can you see why that's simply impossibly impractical? a conventional petrol or diesel powered vehicle have ranges upto and exceeding seven hundred miles, and then refueling only takes ten minutes if there's a queue to pay.

Battery technology hasn't advanced as far as you might think it has.
Even with highly-environmentally-destructive lithium batteries (the production-process for them is abhorrent), you might see 200Wh/Kg.

Assuming that an EV with the same efficiency as the EV1, with a Li-Poly battery-pack of the same mass was used, the range would only increase to about 370 miles, which will still require the many-hour-charge-cycle to refuel.

going to mention the "fast-charge-technology" that allows these newfangled lithium batteries to be recharged in 20 minutes? don't bother: they're technologically impressive but have three major drawbacks;
First: They require current-delivery-capabilities that most STREETS cannot accomodate, we're talking currents in the thousands of Amps range.
Second: They reduce the charge-efficiency of the charging process markedly - with regular charging, more than 80% of the energy you put into a lithium battery will be stored, with these "fast-charges", that drops to around 60% or less, depending on the speed. that's energy that's simply turned into heat.
Third: the fast-charge-cycles are incredibly damaging to the already fragile Lithium batteries, which generally have a cycle-lifetime of only 1000 charge-cycles before their usable capacity becomes too low to be useful.
with fast-charges, this can be as low as two hundred and fifty cycles.

Assuming a daily travel total of about 80 miles, that could easily see the battery needing to be replaced after just eighteen months. Isn't the whole point to save the environment?

Well maybe an electric car couldnt work for some people because they commute to work in other cities and have to travel vast distances...but I think for millions of people in almost every city world wide, when it comes to countries like UK and USA I mean....why wouldn't an electric car be ok? Because most people get in the car in the morning, drive 3 miles to work in city center and then drive home on a night. So I think electric car would be perfect.

I know everyone situation is different, but I'm going off most people I know, friends and family, we live in Leeds, and everyone lives around the city centre, where most people in Leeds probably work. So the batteries they've created you said can do 100 miles, but people are only doing 6 miles a day so surely thats more then enough.

What if like 70% of people in every city drove electric cars, that could cut fossil fuel usage down and help with global warming...also we could really do with getting planes using electric too.

I dont know what boats use? like the big ferries etc? and think trains already use electric dont they?

I just think we could make a big difference to our world wide carbon footprint if we did these things.
 
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Won't it be pretty much too late to get anything up and running within the next few years now? If most stations are due to be shut down (why?!) as new infrastructures will need creating.
Wait. I just read the thread title. Why alternatives to nuclear power? What is the problem with nuclear fusion? Just because it has nuclear in the name (meaning sub atomic particles IE neutrons etc) doesn't instantly mean terrorism and dirty waste etc. Naivety!
 
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Electric cars would work anyway if the standardise battery pack shape and site and just have an automated robotic changer in "petrol" stations. Just like the one in japan.
 
The City of Masdar looks set to be the only green city on Earth with no water being wastd and all energy generated through solar power and other completely green methods. It's still being built but if you've watched Human planet you'll know a little about it already.

Info @ http://www.masdarcity.ae/en/index.aspx

Been following it for a while and loving it. It's how we should be doing things. They've married old and new together.
They've looked at how houses use to be built to keep them cool and all forms of new tech.

There is a few other projects the singapore/china one looks interesting as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Singapore_Tianjin_Eco-city
 
If I ever win the Lotto I would certainly move to one of these eco cities and set up some kind of R&D there in new technologies.

A dream :(
 
most stations are due to be shut down (why?!) as new infrastructures will need creating.

Because Chernobyl petrified a lot of people into thinking that Nuclear was bad. The whole world was just about to start building them again on a large scale and this Japan crisis has hit which is making people waver again.

What I want is in 25 years (at 50 years old) is to have a new nuclear station being built every 5 years minimum to get rid of all the oil and coal stations and them also being used to generate the hydrogen I need for my car. If you are going to get hydrogen by any fossil fuel you might as well just burn the fossil fuel in the car.
 
Eddited title of thread to "The clean green energy thread - Lets talk about alternatives to nuclear power & fossil fuels - Lets save the world!"

Originally posted by Khaaan:
The City of Masdar looks set to be the only green city on Earth with no water being wastd and all energy generated through solar power and other completely green methods. It's still being built but if you've watched Human planet you'll know a little about it already.

Info @ http://www.masdarcity.ae/en/index.aspx

Thats awesome, I hope the city gets built with no problems, I hope its a complete success, and then afterwards I hope the whole world can head in that direction. I'd never heard about this so thanks for the link, now we can all watch the progress of it over the next few years.
 
It won't be possible for the whole world to follow Masdar's path though because the Sun isn't always available all over the globe during all daylight hours like it is there :p

It will however push other nations to follow the example of researching alternative energies!
 
After reading your replies about nuclear energy, you've given a pretty good argument for nuclear energy, and you almost had me convinced its the best source of energy and better then anything else....but then I just think about one thing, and all what you've said kind of goes out the window for me....and I'm being really serious when I say this...I just think to myself, ok yeah, but if a nuclear power plant had a serious meltdown next to my city, then everyone here would die unless they were evacuated early, and then what? people cant live in Leeds ever again for what? 250,000 years?

Wait a second...is it just me, or does this seem like too big of a risk? Just because it might have only happened once before in one place like Chernobyl or whatever, I just think isn't human life worth more, and why take such huge risks with our lives and our planet?

I don't know, just cant get my head around that one factor.
 
Eddited title of thread to "The clean green energy thread - Lets talk about alternatives to nuclear power & fossil fuels - Lets save the world!"

Originally posted by Khaaan:


Thats awesome, I hope the city gets built with no problems, I hope its a complete success, and then afterwards I hope the whole world can head in that direction. I'd never heard about this so thanks for the link, now we can all watch the progress of it over the next few years.

What is your problem with nuclear fusion though? As I said earlier:
Just because it has nuclear in the name (meaning sub atomic particles IE neutrons etc) doesn't instantly mean terrorism and dirty waste etc. Naivety!

Edit, just saw your above post. However, nuke fusion still counts as nuclear energy. :p
 
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