The confederate flag

Soldato
Joined
2 Nov 2004
Posts
24,654
Prompted by Ted Nugent's recent 'controversial' performance Link I started wondering about a controversial matter that wasn't British for once...

wiki said:
What is usually called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag" (actually the Navy Jack as explained above) is still a widely recognized symbol. The display of the flag is a controversial and very emotional issue, generally because of disagreement over exactly what it symbolizes. To many white people in the US South it is a symbol of their heritage and pride in their ancestors who held out during years of war under terrible odds and sacrifice. Others see it as a symbol of the institution of slavery, or of the Jim Crow laws established by the many Southern states enforcing racial segregation within their borders for almost a century later, or even as a symbol of rebellion against the United States government. As a result, there have been numerous political fights over the use of the Confederate battle flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the south's resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.

Over time the flag has acquired a wide range of meanings, some apparently contradicting one another. Since the CSA was fighting for independence during the Civil War, much as the United States did during the Revolutionary War, the Confederate Flag has always had connotations of rebellion, patriotism, self-determination, dissent, freedom, and liberty. Since the issues of slavery and, later, segregation, are deeply intertwined with the CSA and the Civil Rights Movement, the Confederate Flag has connotations of racism and slavery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_flag

My question is - given that some groups find the flag offensive yet others believe it is offensive to hinder anyone who wants to display it - how should it be seen?

Should there be any restrictions on its use?
 
St Georges cross.

Some people display it because they are patriotic.

Other people see it as a symbol used by hooligans and racists.
 
How will Lynyrd Skynyrd and Molly Hatchet go on?
Their backdrops are the Confederate flag.

I saw Nugent 3 times in the 70's and he was mad then - apparently he's far worse now.
 
All that flag means to me is Yeeee harrrrr General Lee and I'm in Hot pursuit and that womens Incredible legs.
I am a bit protective over flags though as i value the St Georges cross as a symbol of My England. It's my colours, my England and my god damn right to wave it anywhere i like.
If people are stupid enouth to mistake Pride in ones own country for racism then **** 'em.
 
malc30 said:
All that flag means to me is Yeeee harrrrr General Lee and I'm in Hot pursuit and that womens Incredible legs.
I am a bit protective over flags though as i value the St Georges cross as a symbol of My England. It's my colours, my England and my god damn right to wave it anywhere i like.
If people are stupid enouth to mistake Pride in ones own country for racism then **** 'em.

fly off the handle much?

It's just some material. People can attach whatever idealisms they like to it.

Worship it. Burn it. I don't care what you do to it; it is only cloth.

*n
 
I express my feelings well and am not flying off the handle.
Anybody burns my flag when i am about will care very much after they have done it.
 
malc30 said:
I express my feelings well and am not flying off the handle.
Anybody burns my flag when i am about will care very much after they have done it.


Keyboard warrior eh??, seriously Malc you need to chill out a bit...its only a bloody flag tbh. I couldnt care less if someone took the british, pakistani or Canadian flag and burned them...as Penski said its only a piece of cloth lol.
 
penski said:
fly off the handle much?

It's just some material. People can attach whatever idealisms they like to it.

Worship it. Burn it. I don't care what you do to it; it is only cloth.

*n

All though I agree to the most part, flags are a symbol of the country. Thus foreign flags should not be raised on buildings unless under the native ones and burning the native flag should still be a crime. But there should be no restrictions on previous flags. Like welsh, Scottish, st george ect.
 
malc30 said:
I express my feelings well and am not flying off the handle.
Anybody burns my flag when i am about will care very much after they have done it.

What if they bought the flag themselves as opposed to using your own personal flag?

It is then their property. Their bit of cloth and they are free to burn it whenever or wherever they wish.

*n
 
Because i express myself from the heart you say i am flying off the handle :p
I am sitting here quite chilled just expressing my true feelings. Would you prefer i went along with the crowd or remained true to myself.
My flag means a great deal to me as does my country. It is moe than a piece of cloth because it represents my country and my fellow countrymen.
 
penski said:
What if they bought the flag themselves as opposed to using your own personal flag?

It is then their property. Their bit of cloth and they are free to burn it whenever or wherever they wish.

*n

That would depend if i was there or not of course.
If not there they can do what they like. If i was there then they would have me to deal with before during and after the burning. They would know it is insulting me and my countrymen and if they did it in front of me they would have to deal with my reaction.
 
malc30 said:
That would depend if i was there or not of course.
If not there they can do what they like. If i was there then they would have me to deal with before during and after the burning. They would know it is insulting me and my countrymen and if they did it in front of me they would have to deal with my reaction.

And what would you do, exactly?

I'm quite intrigued...Are you saying that you would enact physical violence on another person for burning some cloth?

*n
 
I tell you what Penski bring one to the retro meet and burn it then you can get my reaction irl.
 
malc30 said:
I tell you what Penski bring one to the retro meet and burn it then you can get my reaction irl.

Can I bring my keyboard?

A flag is NOTHING BUT CLOTH.

You seem to be confusing a piece of cloth with some idealism that you seem to hold.

No-one, and I repeat NO-ONE has ever died for a flag. A flag is a piece of cloth, they might have died for freedom, which, by the way, is the freedom to....Burn the..flag you see??..Burning the flag doesn't make freedom go away, it's kinda like Free-dom ok?..ok

*n
 
You can bring whatever and whoever you like. In fact i suggest you do if you are going to be burning the St Georges cross in my manor.
Your childish keyboard comments mean nothing, what i write i mean.
 
penski said:
Can I bring my keyboard?

A flag is NOTHING BUT CLOTH.

You seem to be confusing a piece of cloth with some idealism that you seem to hold.



*n

I could say the same about Religion after all thats just a few books with what could be fictional stories for all we know.
 
penski said:
A flag is NOTHING BUT CLOTH.

It's not a bit of cloth, it is so much more. It is the single largest symbol of any nation. If it was simply a bit of cloth why burn it, they burn flags because they know that it's a simple and as such is very powerful statement.
 
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