The decreasing standards of written English

adolf hamster said:
end of the day language is a communication tool, if the words you've written successfully convey the point you're trying to make without excessive effort on the part of the reader then it's done the job.
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Language is also an art form, like music, and there are rules to music too. Much of what's being debated is the fundamentals of those rules, rather than how one chooses to apply them in conveying a point.
End of the day, there are still standards and, as with any other tool, used improperly you just end up doing a ******, half-assed job that achieves nothing.

adolf hamster said:
there's quite the gap between skipping the more formal points of grammar in an informal context and typin lyk u bin charge by da letta
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Not really. The former is precisely what has led to people thinking the latter is in any way acceptable.
If you start letting your standards slip, they'll quickly slide away from you.
 
ttaskmaster said:
Language is also an art form, like music, and there are rules to music too. Much of what's being debated is the fundamentals of those rules, rather than how one chooses to apply them in conveying a point.
End of the day, there are still standards and, as with any other tool, used improperly you just end up doing a ******, half-assed job that achieves nothing.


Not really. The former is precisely what has led to people thinking the latter is in any way acceptable.
If you start letting your standards slip, they'll quickly slide away from you.
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There are three types of sentence, I feel: comprehension, impression and literacy.

In the first, the sentence is purely written so people can understand it.

In the second, it is well-constructed with proper use of spelling and grammar so that the author appears attentive, authoritative and sharp of mind.

In the third, depending on what words and expressions are used, the author is able to better command emotions or to convey technical specificities to the reader. This can be done overtly or subtly.

Some people only care about the first, but in doing so, they are encouraging others to exhibit similar tardiness and lethargy. The second is good for formal writing, the third is better for creative and academic writing.

Graetzbridge said:
It's commas.
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For some people it's also a mental 'gap', so to speak. My ex manager could not understand the reasons for apostrophising/not apostrophising the words "it's" and "its", and would constantly mix them up, regardless of how clearly the rule was explained.
 
ttaskmaster said:
Language is also an art form, like music, and there are rules to music too. Much of what's being debated is the fundamentals of those rules, rather than how one chooses to apply them in conveying a point.
End of the day, there are still standards and, as with any other tool, used improperly you just end up doing a ******, half-assed job that achieves nothing.
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the problem with using music as an analogy is you have everything from Mozart to Megadeth and no real definitive good/bad as it depends entirely on the listener whether they like it or not.

y'know having written that i realise it's a pretty good analogy, carry on......

ttaskmaster said:
Not really. The former is precisely what has led to people thinking the latter is in any way acceptable.
If you start letting your standards slip, they'll quickly slide away from you.
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i suppose dubstep exists so you do have a point.

Graetzbridge said:
It's commas.
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add apostrophes to the list then :P
 
jaybee said:
"...he's been an idiot isn't he?"
Been = being
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Either is allowed, although which should be used depends on whether the idiocy is stil ongoing.

EDIT: "he's been an idiot, hasn't he?" or "he's being an idiot, isn't he?" I'm the idiot that ignored the subclause at the end! :cry:
 
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adolf hamster said:
the problem with using music as an analogy is you have everything from Mozart to Megadeth and no real definitive good/bad as it depends entirely on the listener whether they like it or not
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It's actually a pretty good analogy since Megadeth is highly technically proficient. As far as I understand it, he was talking about music theory and musicality, not music taste.
 
Its just another example of society's want to completely remove any sort of stigma or negative connotations from anything that they consider to be worse for the underprivileged or lower classes. Speaking properly, knowing how to spell or being able to write a complete sentence is classist and racist in their eyes. Society should adapt to the way that anyone wants to portray themselves and not judge them on it. Want to turn up at work dressed as a clown and speak like you are straight out of Kingston and talk to the board of BP, go you, break down those barriers.

Want to dress poorly for your shape and size, more power to you, don't anyone dare judge you for letting it all hang out.

Watch TV and adverts now and they go to great lengths to have people of every colour with every possible accent portrayed as just as capable as anyone else. The simple truth is that if you speak like an oik and dress like you don't give a **** then people in the professional world won't take you as seriously. They are entitled to do that. We have to make quick decisions on things based on limited input in a short space or time with lots of options. If you cannot speak properly or convey your thoughts then you will lose out to someone who can. Acting as if its not important is just stupid and doesn't do people any good.
 
bloodiedathame said:
Got a reference for this? I googled your statement and found one instance of a sit-in protest because of a professor's 'microaggressive' thoroughness in correcting students. He didn't lose his job.
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I was mistaken sorry, the sacking was something else similar to this, but I can't remember exactly what.

I just started looking it up again.

They do get a lot of protesting and complaints though.

In the US its more to do with race and 'African American Language' (see article I posted).

In UK its more to do with class.

Lower and incorrect forms of grammar are becoming accepted as the norm, and correcting them leads to meltdowns. 'Writing how you speak' is how it often gets explained, and liberal society decides to tolerate these errors based on it being ok to do for people perceived as lower privilege.
 
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BallistixOnZ490 said:
snip
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No worries. I do agree though, the US does seem to have gone too far in their response to being 'offended'.

As for grammar and spelling; in creative writing, I don't see the problem with 'text-speak' etc. However, if someone is trying to communicate properly (let's say an essay or a formal letter), then an accepted level of spelling and grammar should be upheld.
 
dave28 said:
Nobody goes there except to see the sign maybe, im sure whoever made that up were eating the local mushrooms
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Or selling them to tourists :)

It's a sensible move that brings money into the place. If it wasn't for the name, the only people who'd even heard of the place would be people living in the immediate area. Because of the name, it's known around the world. Particularly since hardly anyone (on a global scale) understands the language and so doesn't know that the name is just a long sentence with the spaces removed. It's like renaming Stoke-on-Trent as "conglomerationofhalfadozentownsnearthemiddleofenglandandlooselycentredonpartoftherivertrent".
 
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