***The DigitalFoundry Face Off Thread***

[elmuzzy66.]

I don't trusts Devs that's my issue. They will put even less effort into pc games. I don't sit in my living room to game. All kudos to Sony for what they are doing for the consoles.

 

[shankly1985]

I get that it brings not-quite-UHD-resolution to more people (who decided to buy a 4K screen and then cheap out on GPU I guess).
But it's not new, as the video points out, it's already in use, in PC games.
Of course, if you want to get console equalling performance, you could just buy a console.

If he releases another video that goes into how you can turn off AA to improve framerates without too much image quality loss should I throw a street party then too? (The "Turn off depth-of-field" and "motion blur" parties I threw were fantastic! )
Why do we have to get excited when someone finds a setting that improves performance at the cost of image quality? Should I be starting new threads every time I load a game and see a setting that can be lowered to improve performance?

But yes, it's nice that new graphics settings are appearing to give people options.
But the title of the video was "4K Gaming! What can PC learn from PS4 Pro?" and then I think all the things he talked about were already implemented in a game on PC. So the answer to the question would be "nothing"?

Its not just Graphics that separate Console from PC for me Graphics is the less thing on my mind why I pick PC over console.. Just simple Mouse & Keyboard is one of meany reasons.

Now you just being silly Turning off AA is quite a big IQ downgrade, You should be saying how can we get better AA without the performance hit from SSAA or 8MSAA without much IQ difference.

They not used enough is what he also is pointing out!! The only Reason the Ubi games have some of the features is because UBi helped develop Checkerboard rendering Watch from 8:28
So What he saying is we need more titles with these features not just the odd couple. Battlefield has an excellent super sample feature that does a great jump for this. Rainbow six and watch dogs have checkerboard rendering this isn't enough!! I guess they just really isn't any pleasing you GM So lets just agree to disagree and continue to enjoy the rest of your day Mr Grumpy

 

[Nexus18]

Its not just Graphics that separate Console from PC for me Graphics is the less thing on my mind why I pick PC over console.. Just simple Mouse & Keyboard is one of meany reasons.

You can also use mouse + keyboard on the consoles.


But yeah I miss the days where PC was pushing graphics big time and actually noticeably better than consoles, it at least made buying a high end PC (as in £1000+) worth while... I think with each new next gen console, the gap between PC and console will close even further to the point where PC will become an extreme enthusiast platform only, I think we are already starting to see the signs of this inevitable future as;

1. as above, graphics are no longer really pushed on the PC side with a few exceptions, in fact, in the last few years, a few titles have had missing graphic effects on the PC version
2. pretty much every game on release for PC over the last few years is buggy or poorly optimised, takes about 4+ months for them to get it working as it should
3. PC hardware in general getting more expensive (largely down to the monopoly of nvidia and intel though, hopefully ryzen + vega will help the market get back to sensible prices)

2 main reasons I stick with PC gaming for now are:

- 21.9
- 60+ FPS (consoles 30 fps feels very "smooth" but the motion isn't as good as 60 fps)

Plus cheaper games are nice as well as being able to fix some bugs etc. some of the times yourself is the upside of PC.


As for AA types, no doubt DICE's games with the slider is the best by far, I'm not one to really notice jaggies though as I usually always leave AA off or/and just use SMAA, be it in the game or via sweetfx and this generally does a decent enough job, can't stand the likes of FXAA as they blur the game too much.

 

[shankly1985]

Been while since I posted content from DigitalFoundry into this thread. Main reason they just haven't released any decent PC content that much anymore.

 

[LtMatt]

Yes I've noticed a lack of PC content from them recently, shame.

 

[Nexus18]

Not really any surprise tbh as the console market is far more popular and larger than what the PC gaming market is thus more views, also a lot less work is required doing console comparisons than PC..... Most of their PC only videos barely breach 100k views, some aren't even getting past 50k views where as anything with console in it or other stuff is usually at least 150k+ views, heck, the only reason they are probably still doing any PC content currently is because of their sponsorships, once/if they ever become a big enough channel to sustain themselves, I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop PC altogether.

 

[Cooper]

Richard Leadbetter is too in love with high end PC tech for DF to ever drop it completely, the reason they don't do as much PC stuff is simple, there are so many channels on Youtube that offer the same service when it comes to reviewing CPU & GPU performance, whereas detailed console analysis has far less competition for viewers.

 

[Gregster]

Duderandom does a fairly decent job of various game tests. Worth a watch for those interested.

 

[tyler_jrb]

Not really any surprise tbh as the console market is far more popular and larger than what the PC gaming market is thus more views, also a lot less work is required doing console comparisons than PC..... Most of their PC only videos barely breach 100k views, some aren't even getting past 50k views where as anything with console in it or other stuff is usually at least 150k+ views, heck, the only reason they are probably still doing any PC content currently is because of their sponsorships, once/if they ever become a big enough channel to sustain themselves, I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop PC altogether.

At the minute its very much neck and neck. There are just about as many people who game on pc if not more as there are on console. PC gaming is a huge market.

I think cooper hit the nail on the head. There are many more channels on youtube that offer far better content than DF.

I've always found DF benchmarks to be a little off from what i and others were seeing.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Digital Foundry actually will beat a number of sites because people forget one thing - they are not a hardware review site. They are part of Eurogamer which is a big gaming website and as a result this is why they seem to know the best areas to test the games in, since they probably get feedback from the rest of their staff who actually have played through the games,and that can be confirmed if you play the said games.

You have plenty of sites which might do good testing but seem to choose really weird areas of the game - I remember Techreport for example tested essentially a tunnel section in Crysis3 for CPU testing which was pointless.

The village of the Remnants in ROTTR is very taxing,especially on the CPU,and they knew this was the case and did their CPU tests there,and other sites copied them. It was the same with their FO4 testing where they tested inside the Corvega plant which taxed systems in earlier verisons of the games. The part they test in Crysis 3 is taxing(if you played Crysis 3 you would see that) and so on. It was the same with their RAM testing where they were amongst the first to show high speed RAM could help in certain games with SKL/KL,IIRC,and even some of their testing highlighted issues with cards with limited VRAM amounts(think the GTX1060 3GB vs 6GB for example).

Its why I do like their testing,and they seem to also notice things in games other sites miss,like improved minimums,issues with certain texture settings,etc and if they make a mistake they will actually admit it and retest stuff.

Also,people forget they will OFC being doing more console testing since the XBox One X has been released this week and has already had 80000 sales in the UK alone.

The last set of big CPU releases this year have already happened,and I suspect the GTX1070TI will be the last major release until Ampere is launched next year.

Edit!!

DF also did a lot of testing of CFL and Vega,so its not really fair for to say they have been neglecting the PC side. I mean the XBox One X is a major console release so it would be ludricous for them to ignore it for the near future!

 

[nashathedog]

These games tested, especially the older ones like Unity and Crysis 3 show big losses for Vega, I think it's because the drivers weren't around back then and the limited resources the driver team has means they've yet to be fine tuned for older titles and may never be, It's only a theory though, So why is Nvidia's newer stuff doing so much better? Maybe it's due to the last architectures being so similar where as with Vega they've moved away from GCN.

 

[Nexus18]

Richard Leadbetter is too in love with high end PC tech for DF to ever drop it completely, the reason they don't do as much PC stuff is simple, there are so many channels on Youtube that offer the same service when it comes to reviewing CPU & GPU performance, whereas detailed console analysis has far less competition for viewers.

Maybe for his own personal use but for purely youtube content, he could.

You just have to look at youtubers in general, if something isn't doing well in terms of views no matter how much they love it, they will drop that content quickly, this is most evident when it comes to youtube gamers, heck a lot of people are playing PUBG purely because the game is doing extremely well for views on twitch and youtube and some of these people HATE the game.

At the minute its very much neck and neck. There are just about as many people who game on pc if not more as there are on console. PC gaming is a huge market.

I think cooper hit the nail on the head. There are many more channels on youtube that offer far better content than DF.

I've always found DF benchmarks to be a little off from what i and others were seeing.

Unfortunately PC market is nowhere near PC for games overall, especially triple A titles, look at stats like this:

http://bf1stats.com/

And that is for a game that is very much a "PC" game.

And so on, console, especially PS 4 is much higher than PC.

Also, if PC market was doing great then PC games would be released in a better state as well as having the graphics pushed further than console, just look at the recent assassins creed game, very little difference in graphics between a ps 4 pro and pc and like wise with SWBF 2 on the ps 4 pro + xbx1x And you wouldn't have the likes of WB/rocksteady passing the PC version of batman arkham knight onto a small time developers that does only console ports.....

When you look at the stats/figures, PC is extremely profitable, iirc, more so than consoles but when you look further into, that is coming largely from free to play titles and big competitive games like LOL, overwatch etc. where as triple A games does vastly better on consoles.



Personally I find DF are the best for benchmarks, they are one of the few sites that show real time footage with frame times.

 

[tyler_jrb]

Maybe for his own personal use but for purely youtube content, he could.

You just have to look at youtubers in general, if something isn't doing well in terms of views no matter how much they love it, they will drop that content quickly, this is most evident when it comes to youtube gamers, heck a lot of people are playing PUBG purely because the game is doing extremely well for views on twitch and youtube and some of these people HATE the game.



Unfortunately PC market is nowhere near PC for games overall, especially triple A titles, look at stats like this:

http://bf1stats.com/

And that is for a game that is very much a "PC" game.

And so on, console, especially PS 4 is much higher than PC.

Also, if PC market was doing great then PC games would be released in a better state as well as having the graphics pushed further than console, just look at the recent assassins creed game, very little difference in graphics between a ps 4 pro and pc and like wise with SWBF 2 on the ps 4 pro + xbx1x

When you look at the stats/figures, PC is extremely profitable, iirc, more so than consoles but when you look further into, that is coming largely from free to play titles and big competitive games like LOL, overwatch etc. where as triple A games does vastly better on consoles.



Personally I find DF are the best for benchmarks, they are one of the few sites that show real time footage with frame times.

It's hard to go purely off just AAA titles though.

For example steam has 65 million active users which is a lot more than Xbox live and PS4.

Plus the other amounts on origin, uplay and there are masses of people on mmorpg games.

With assassins creed it depends on the settings used. A 1080Ti will do it with pretty much maxed settings 4k 60fps.

Whereas a XBX is to be expected at 30fps with frequent drops to 15fps and reduced settings.

There are plenty of people playing the games . Sure I agree they should be better though. But Ubisoft had never been one for optimisations on either platform.

 

[DELETED_195422]

I don't even bother with DF anymore. They are far too console focused and the lack of PC content is telling in that regard. I unsubscribed as i couldn't give a **** about consoles to be honest. Plus the comments section of the videos are obnoxious. It's just full of wee *****.

Unfortunately PC market is nowhere near PC for games overall, especially triple A titles, look at stats like this:

http://bf1stats.com/

And that is for a game that is very much a "PC" game.

And so on, console, especially PS 4 is much higher than PC.

Also, if PC market was doing great then PC games would be released in a better state as well as having the graphics pushed further than console, just look at the recent assassins creed game, very little difference in graphics between a ps 4 pro and pc and like wise with SWBF 2 on the ps 4 pro + xbx1x And you wouldn't have the likes of WB/rocksteady passing the PC version of batman arkham knight onto a small time developers that does only console ports.....

When you look at the stats/figures, PC is extremely profitable, iirc, more so than consoles but when you look further into, that is coming largely from free to play titles and big competitive games like LOL, overwatch etc. where as triple A games does vastly better on consoles.

The success of PC gaming never has and never will come from AAA gaming. PC Gaming is bigger than that. The AAA market is the equivalent of Top of the Pops. It's popular on consoles, but many know that's not where the great content is at.

AAA gaming sales will only get worse on PC as more people wise-up and ignore it in favour of Indie, Mid-Tier titles and other genres.

 

[Nexus18]

It's hard to go purely off just AAA titles though.

For example steam has 65 million active users which is a lot more than Xbox live and PS4.

Plus the other amounts on origin, uplay and there are masses of people on mmorpg games.

With assassins creed it depends on the settings used. A 1080Ti will do it with pretty much maxed settings 4k 60fps.

Whereas a XBX is to be expected at 30fps with frequent drops to 15fps and reduced settings.

There are plenty of people playing the games . Sure I agree they should be better though. But Ubisoft had never been one for optimisations on either platform.

No doubt 65 million monthly active users is good but, most of those users are probably playing free to play games, especially when you look at steam hardware survey, so many people are still on 1920x1080 followed by 1366x768......

And chances are, steam is the largest platform on PC so I doubt uplay or origin would beat those figures, at best, they would match it.

Also, PSN is at 70+ million active users, microsoft is behind with 52 million.

Quite interesting looking at the most played games on steam:

Although it is a bit pointless comparing how many users are on each platform as shown, when it comes to triple a, consoles will sell a lot more than the PC side.

How much is a 1080ti again? No point comparing something that costs at least £200+ more....

It isn't just AC:O though, it is 90% of the games out there for PC now, graphics are barely any better than PS 4 (pro)/xb1x and more often than not, the pc game is plagued with issues on release day.

The success of PC gaming never has and never will come from AAA gaming. PC Gaming is bigger than that. The AAA market is the equivalent of Top of the Pops. It's popular on consoles, but many know that's not where the great content is at.

AAA gaming sales will only get worse on PC as more people wise-up and ignore it in favour of Indie, Mid-Tier titles and other genres.

I know people rant and rave about indie titles and so on, personally they do nothing for me, triple A games are also losing their appeal for me too (largely because of the state they are released on PC).

This is what makes the PS 4 even more enticing as you get great triple a games like the last of us, HZD and so on.

 

[VincentHanna]

Digital Foundry have been quite busy recently with a certain console that launched 8 days ago..

 

[tyler_jrb]

No doubt 65 million monthly active users is good but, most of those users are probably playing free to play games, especially when you look at steam hardware survey, so many people are still on 1920x1080 followed by 1366x768......

And chances are, steam is the largest platform on PC so I doubt uplay or origin would beat those figures, at best, they would match it.

Also, PSN is at 70+ million active users, microsoft is behind with 52 million.

Quite interesting looking at the most played games on steam:

Although it is a bit pointless comparing how many users are on each platform as shown, when it comes to triple a, consoles will sell a lot more than the PC side.

How much is a 1080ti again? No point comparing something that costs at least £200+ more....

It isn't just AC:O though, it is 90% of the games out there for PC now, graphics are barely any better than PS 4 (pro)/xb1x and more often than not, the pc game is plagued with issues on release day.



I know people rant and rave about indie titles and so on, personally they do nothing for me, triple A games are also losing their appeal for me too (largely because of the state they are released on PC).

This is what makes the PS 4 even more enticing as you get great triple a games like the last of us, HZD and so on.

Well you could compare a 1060/RX580 and get pretty much the same result in terms of framerate and graphical performance.

Sure your getting a lot more performance from a 1080/1080Ti. Which in terms means noticeably better graphics and higher frames.

Depends on what you want I guess.

There are quite a few games that have been quite good recently though. Shadow of war, BF1, destiny 2, cod WW2.

 

[shankly1985]

Kingdom Come Deliverance - Game of the Year 2018

 

[Nexus18]

GOTY........

Nice to finally see a game where PC looks much better than the console though! Shame you need future hardware to max it out with a constant 60 fps though...

 

[shankly1985]

GOTY........

Nice to finally see a game where PC looks much better than the console though! Shame you need future hardware to max it out with a constant 60 fps though...

Get by with my settings you find it hard to tell the difference. Over one 1 mill copies sold, positive feedback PC mater race selling 45% of them copies.

This the best game I have played in a long time, sure it has its bugs but for a game this size you expect that.