Soldato
Yea was thinking about mounting to the front of a case, maybe the DAC so an ipod touch can clip on and off in the horizontal position, would look snazzy though i dont know how doable to keep it looking smart and tidy.
*** The DIY Audio Thread ***
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damian, your latest build looks fantastic! Clearly a lot of time and effort put in there (as well as money i guess! 
).
I have been reading this thread for a while and have decided i would quite like to have a go at building an amp, albeit a fairly simple one. Looking at 41hz (www.41hz.com), the amp6 model takes my fancy, but i must admit i am unclear about some aspects of the build. The site says that you will need to add an additional transformer rated at 12-15v. I presume that this means something like this is needed:
http://uk.farnell.com/9530371/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=multicomp-mcta050-15
There is also a 12v toroid transformer made by the same company rated at the same 50va output. Is this output too high/too low for this amp, or should i be looking at something different entirely?
I have also been thinking about building a preamp into the mix, but have no idea where to start here. I am fairly certain i don't want to drag valves into the mix - not yet anyway, but looking at head-fi and DIY audio, i cannot pinpoint a specific preamp kit to use. I know other here have built preamps - could anyone shed some light on some decent kits or schematics?
EDIT: Meant to ask if a preamp is even necessary? Since most manufactured amps etc have built in preamps, i presumed that a preamp could help to improve the sound and give more tonal options, but im not 100% sure if this is the case. I think i should also point out that i would be looking at this as a learning experience more than anything else, using this as a 'springboard' to perhaps a more expensive/better amp (if that makes sense).
Cheers, any help is much appreciated.
).I have been reading this thread for a while and have decided i would quite like to have a go at building an amp, albeit a fairly simple one. Looking at 41hz (www.41hz.com), the amp6 model takes my fancy, but i must admit i am unclear about some aspects of the build. The site says that you will need to add an additional transformer rated at 12-15v. I presume that this means something like this is needed:
http://uk.farnell.com/9530371/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=multicomp-mcta050-15
There is also a 12v toroid transformer made by the same company rated at the same 50va output. Is this output too high/too low for this amp, or should i be looking at something different entirely?
I have also been thinking about building a preamp into the mix, but have no idea where to start here. I am fairly certain i don't want to drag valves into the mix - not yet anyway, but looking at head-fi and DIY audio, i cannot pinpoint a specific preamp kit to use. I know other here have built preamps - could anyone shed some light on some decent kits or schematics?
EDIT: Meant to ask if a preamp is even necessary? Since most manufactured amps etc have built in preamps, i presumed that a preamp could help to improve the sound and give more tonal options, but im not 100% sure if this is the case. I think i should also point out that i would be looking at this as a learning experience more than anything else, using this as a 'springboard' to perhaps a more expensive/better amp (if that makes sense).
Cheers, any help is much appreciated.
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Soldato
ChrissyT88: You don't need a pre-amp with the amp6 basic... But they can be handy as a volume and tone control. Make the amp first, then make a seperate pre-amp afterwards if you want.
The Amp6 basic is a great little amp. Ok, it's now gonna be able to power some 18" PA speakers, but for bookshelves and floorstanders it's more than enough. I've built and modded stuff that it a lot more expensive or complex than the Amp6, but it doesn't have the same sparkle that the amp6 does. It's probably my favourate amp so I can't help bigging it up.
As for powering it, it just needs a single ended power source. I even use batteries when I want to hear it outside. As the poster above has said, a LCD screen PSU or laptop PSU can be used, just check the voltage and polarity (there is a diode just incase tho).
If you do go the toroid route, you will need more than just a toroid. Looks into linear supplies, you'll need a bridge rectifier and tank caps. Google for more info. Just a little warning tho, as soon as you start with toroids, you are playing with mains voltages. I recommend you steer clear of building a linear PSU until you have more experience.
If you look on ebay, try looking for 12v SMPS. I think there is some guy selling some on there, £20 for two. Just check the SMPS will do at least 4 amps... Good luck.
It does look like awesome bang for buck tho, which is one of the best bits about DIY. 
Right now I've been sidetracked with a load of 1/2" plywood, and am going to try a folded version of the tapped horn... The idea being I will be able to transport it in a car instead of a van! It will still be around 9 cubic feet tho, not much way around that unless I tune the box higher than 30Hz.
The Amp6 basic is a great little amp. Ok, it's now gonna be able to power some 18" PA speakers, but for bookshelves and floorstanders it's more than enough. I've built and modded stuff that it a lot more expensive or complex than the Amp6, but it doesn't have the same sparkle that the amp6 does. It's probably my favourate amp so I can't help bigging it up.
As for powering it, it just needs a single ended power source. I even use batteries when I want to hear it outside. As the poster above has said, a LCD screen PSU or laptop PSU can be used, just check the voltage and polarity (there is a diode just incase tho).
If you do go the toroid route, you will need more than just a toroid. Looks into linear supplies, you'll need a bridge rectifier and tank caps. Google for more info. Just a little warning tho, as soon as you start with toroids, you are playing with mains voltages. I recommend you steer clear of building a linear PSU until you have more experience.
If you look on ebay, try looking for 12v SMPS. I think there is some guy selling some on there, £20 for two. Just check the SMPS will do at least 4 amps... Good luck.
I'll have to do some research on it... A tube amp is definately on my "to do" list but right now I have too little time!
It does look like awesome bang for buck tho, which is one of the best bits about DIY. Right now I've been sidetracked with a load of 1/2" plywood, and am going to try a folded version of the tapped horn... The idea being I will be able to transport it in a car instead of a van! It will still be around 9 cubic feet tho, not much way around that unless I tune the box higher than 30Hz.
Soldato
As above really, I was advised to build the amp6 though found gainclones at the same time, i opted for the gainclone chipamp, this combined toroidial transformers and all through hole components so it was the best of both worlds for me though i do intend to try a 41hz amp as soon as is viable.
Tubes are a definate nono for a beginner, i dont know to much about them but i have be warned that the voltages are pretty extreme in those projects so proberbly best to learn the ropes first.
As for expensive.... thats the thing with this hobby, it can be as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be.I dont really spend my money on anything else but my crappy l reg fiesta so i dont mind throwing it at something like this, though dont be fooled i dont have fortunes to spend on it, its just a case of when i have it i spend it.
General consensus these days with digital audio and the likes are that a tonal control in pre amps is not needed, a good amp and speakers should reproduce the music as its meant to be heard so tone control is pointless and was geard more to clearing up analogue vinyl audio on crappy systems. This may not be the case for some people, tastes call for certain levels of bass, be it higher or lower so there is a call for tone control regardless of what other people say it just all depends on you personal tastes for music. Build the amp and see if you think it needs improving, a pre is certainly the way to do this just pointless if you don't think you need it. Like i say i cant speak for the amp6 but my 2x50w gainclone certainly surprised me and its the most rewarding feeling hearing your amp play music for the first time so on that basis id say definitely take the hobby up BUT BE WARNED THIS HOBBY IS VERY VERY ADDICTIVE, the great rewards breed hunger for new experiences, it will engulf your life and spare time, my advice is dont fight it and give yourself to the hobby that is DIY Audio!
Quick update to show just how cheap you can make the projects, some DIY interconnects using cat5 network cable, cost £7 for both, thats the price if the connectors, Ive heard it can be used as speaker wire but i dont like the idea of that, havnt tested them yet but i will do first thing tomorrow.
Digital.
pc to amp
and now some wincing pain, this is what happend while making those cables, i work on the floor... i know i know but its just where i feel comfy, i Got into a heated debate with the missus over some trivial garbage she read on some garbage website and while my attention was drawn away from what i was doing i realised i needed some more solder. Next thing i know i was turning red in the faceand suddenly getting a feeling i wanted to kill something, and this is why!
Yes that is the perfect branding of the tip of my soldering iron, branded by my own 30w iron, the missus new i had done it before i did, as i realized i looked up waiting for the infuriating giggle i know she would give me but even she realised id be out in 6 for good beahviour after only getting involuntary manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility, due to temporary insanity from the shear horror of my injury's!!!!!
Tubes are a definate nono for a beginner, i dont know to much about them but i have be warned that the voltages are pretty extreme in those projects so proberbly best to learn the ropes first.
As for expensive.... thats the thing with this hobby, it can be as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be.I dont really spend my money on anything else but my crappy l reg fiesta so i dont mind throwing it at something like this, though dont be fooled i dont have fortunes to spend on it, its just a case of when i have it i spend it.
General consensus these days with digital audio and the likes are that a tonal control in pre amps is not needed, a good amp and speakers should reproduce the music as its meant to be heard so tone control is pointless and was geard more to clearing up analogue vinyl audio on crappy systems. This may not be the case for some people, tastes call for certain levels of bass, be it higher or lower so there is a call for tone control regardless of what other people say it just all depends on you personal tastes for music. Build the amp and see if you think it needs improving, a pre is certainly the way to do this just pointless if you don't think you need it. Like i say i cant speak for the amp6 but my 2x50w gainclone certainly surprised me and its the most rewarding feeling hearing your amp play music for the first time so on that basis id say definitely take the hobby up BUT BE WARNED THIS HOBBY IS VERY VERY ADDICTIVE, the great rewards breed hunger for new experiences, it will engulf your life and spare time, my advice is dont fight it and give yourself to the hobby that is DIY Audio!
Quick update to show just how cheap you can make the projects, some DIY interconnects using cat5 network cable, cost £7 for both, thats the price if the connectors, Ive heard it can be used as speaker wire but i dont like the idea of that, havnt tested them yet but i will do first thing tomorrow.
Digital.
pc to amp
and now some wincing pain, this is what happend while making those cables, i work on the floor... i know i know but its just where i feel comfy, i Got into a heated debate with the missus over some trivial garbage she read on some garbage website and while my attention was drawn away from what i was doing i realised i needed some more solder. Next thing i know i was turning red in the faceand suddenly getting a feeling i wanted to kill something, and this is why!
Yes that is the perfect branding of the tip of my soldering iron, branded by my own 30w iron, the missus new i had done it before i did, as i realized i looked up waiting for the infuriating giggle i know she would give me but even she realised id be out in 6 for good beahviour after only getting involuntary manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility, due to temporary insanity from the shear horror of my injury's!!!!!
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Soldato
^ OOOOwwwww. I've done similar before, mainly by handling parts that haven't cooled properly... Not as bad as that tho! 
After a few burns your hands become pretty desensitized to heat.
After a few burns your hands become pretty desensitized to heat.
Soldato
Yeh hurts ****, 48v aint to bad i woumder if i could fit it all in with my cd transport cause it would looks pretty sweet, any use for a preammp?
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Thanks for the responses guys - really very helpful. I am not entirely new to DIY - i have build a chip headphone amp, but i must admit, i think playing with mains voltages is possibly a little risky. In that respect, i think you have convinced me to go for the amp6 basic (plus its slightly cheaper, which is an added bonus!).
EDIT: Btw Mike, looking at your amp6 on the first page of this thread, do you have a volume control? I ask because i am not realistically going to drive my speakers at full power. I cannot see a specific place on the board for a volume pot, but would it just be a case of bridging a pot between the source and the amps input? This was the method used for the headphone amp i built, so i would presume the same holds true here.
@Damian - ouch! I burnt myself on an 18w iron, but nowhere near as badly as that! I agree with you about the expense issue - im still a student, an money is, well.. tight. I somewhat regret not taking a 'proper' job this summer. But never mind - its educational!
This is perhaps the million dollar question, but i do have some money i have saved with the intention of buying some new hi-fi gear. I currently have a denon microsystem, which is pretty good, but im looking for something a little better. I have a budget of around £400 (i realise this sounds a little silly in light of my 'money is tight' statement above... but im confident i could raise it... ish), and was looking at buying an integrated amp + a decent pair of speakers. Bearing in mind a DIY project will eat into this, is it better to spend more money on the speakers and ditch the amp altogether ie the amp 6 + a £300 pair of speakers, or will the sound of the amp6 not be on a par with that of a £200 integrated amp?
EDIT: Btw Mike, looking at your amp6 on the first page of this thread, do you have a volume control? I ask because i am not realistically going to drive my speakers at full power. I cannot see a specific place on the board for a volume pot, but would it just be a case of bridging a pot between the source and the amps input? This was the method used for the headphone amp i built, so i would presume the same holds true here.
@Damian - ouch! I burnt myself on an 18w iron, but nowhere near as badly as that! I agree with you about the expense issue - im still a student, an money is, well.. tight. I somewhat regret not taking a 'proper' job this summer. But never mind - its educational!
This is perhaps the million dollar question, but i do have some money i have saved with the intention of buying some new hi-fi gear. I currently have a denon microsystem, which is pretty good, but im looking for something a little better. I have a budget of around £400 (i realise this sounds a little silly in light of my 'money is tight' statement above... but im confident i could raise it... ish), and was looking at buying an integrated amp + a decent pair of speakers. Bearing in mind a DIY project will eat into this, is it better to spend more money on the speakers and ditch the amp altogether ie the amp 6 + a £300 pair of speakers, or will the sound of the amp6 not be on a par with that of a £200 integrated amp?
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Damien, the dac arrive in the post this morning (same as yours). I hooked it up and it sounds very good (unbelievable for the money).
I am going to case it up in a hifi2000 case. bypass the output elec caps with some quality film caps and replace the opamp opa2107 (lovely and detailed - and i have one lying around). The whole lot will come to about £55.
I am going to case it up in a hifi2000 case. bypass the output elec caps with some quality film caps and replace the opamp opa2107 (lovely and detailed - and i have one lying around). The whole lot will come to about £55.
Soldato
Right, just ordered the DAC that Damian has been plugging and also an AMP10 kit from 41Hz.com. I cannot wait to get building again.
On the container front: I've taken a look at modushop.biz and some of their boxes look beautiful. I'm thinking about a Pesante 300mm 2U rack with one of the 10mm hiFi front panels. This is rapidly getting very expensive...
On the container front: I've taken a look at modushop.biz and some of their boxes look beautiful. I'm thinking about a Pesante 300mm 2U rack with one of the 10mm hiFi front panels. This is rapidly getting very expensive...
yeah, but the cases are good!.
I am at this very moment listening to the cheap dac. Really good, smacks my beresford and alien dac. Still needs some film caps on the output, its a tad grainy.
I paid 16 + 14 post and package, and that came with a torroid.
I am very tempted to put a valve based output stage on it.
I am at this very moment listening to the cheap dac. Really good, smacks my beresford and alien dac. Still needs some film caps on the output, its a tad grainy.
I paid 16 + 14 post and package, and that came with a torroid.
I am very tempted to put a valve based output stage on it.
Soldato
How long was the delivery on your cheapo DAC, Adam?
Also, I don't know if you've seen this, but it looks like the same DAC.
http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/LAMPUCERA/CD DAC Lampucera lampizator.html
Tantalum caps appear to give superior sound quality.
Also, I don't know if you've seen this, but it looks like the same DAC.
http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/LAMPUCERA/CD DAC Lampucera lampizator.html
Tantalum caps appear to give superior sound quality.
Soldato
Yep that's the DAC in question, my projects on hold until the car insurance and other bills get sorted along with the major burns on my fingers from my blasted soldering iron but im really hyped to see some projects being born. p4radox ill be keeping a close eye on your amp10 build as this is a serious contender for my main amp in replacement of my LM3886, very fortunate its going to be paired with the cheap DAC as well, i can treat it as a precursor to my own project. Do you my mind keeping a detailed build log and construction log? it will make very interesting reading while i work on my shigaclone and cheap DAC, will be interesting to see what hurdles you come across and what your overall thoughts about the pairing are!
@Adam really glad your happy with your cheap DAC, definitely a good sign for all us owners yet to complete the project!
@Adam really glad your happy with your cheap DAC, definitely a good sign for all us owners yet to complete the project!
Soldato
Quick question about the DAC guys, I'm after something that will convert SPDIF to stereo. Would this DAC that you've got from the bay work here or does it use USB input like the AlienDAC? I'm particularly interested in the "cheap dac" as this only needs to feed a sub.
I'm trying to go 2-way active, I've already got an Emu 1212m which had been modded a little, I'm going to use it's onboard DAC for everything above 110Hz. I just need another dac to feed my sub, so everything below 110Hz will come out as SPDIF, which I than plan to use the external DAC for. This should work amirite? I'll do a bit of reading on it, is there already a thread on it at diyaudio?
If you need volume control as a part of your amp6, just buy a dual gang pot, and you'll want to order extra input connectors as the included one is PCB mount. I suggest some Neutrik Phono sockets, as they are more robust than 3.5mm jacks.
Then look up "volume pot wiring" in google, there will probably be some sort of pic that will be a lot clearer than: wire ground to pin one, output signal to pin2, input signal to pin3 on the pot. Repeat for the other channel.
That being said, I think you are best off spending most of your money on speakers, as they are almost always the weakest link in most sound setups I've found. For that sort of money you may be able to pick up some 2nd hand Pro-ac's, but replacement drivers for the are pricey as hell, so be careful.
I've tried a modded Quad 405, modded Cambrige Audio A3i, and a few other amps I can't remember the name of but I prefer the way the Amp6 sounds over these. I really want to hear a better sounding amp than the amp6, but I haven't yet... I havent spent lots of time trying different (high-end?) amps however. I only tried out what I have lying around the house.
It also depends what sort of speakers you plan to buy. The Amp6 is perfect for bookshelf speakers, but it may not have enough power to drive low sensitivity floorstanders with high SPL, especially if they are 8 even 16 ohm impedance... But then there is always the amp 9, more power and more channels, it's not too late to go for the amp9...
Have you considered going the DIY route with the speakers? Type "zaph audio" into google for a bit of inspiration.
OMG, I didn't realise this post would be this long, I appear to have got carried away.
I'm trying to go 2-way active, I've already got an Emu 1212m which had been modded a little, I'm going to use it's onboard DAC for everything above 110Hz. I just need another dac to feed my sub, so everything below 110Hz will come out as SPDIF, which I than plan to use the external DAC for. This should work amirite? I'll do a bit of reading on it, is there already a thread on it at diyaudio?
My amp6 has no volume pot, if I need a volume pot I have a seperate pre-amp which I connect up between my source and amp6. My pre amp isn't much more than a simple signal selector and dual gang pot tho, another mad creation which uses a tuna tin as a chassis.
If you need volume control as a part of your amp6, just buy a dual gang pot, and you'll want to order extra input connectors as the included one is PCB mount. I suggest some Neutrik Phono sockets, as they are more robust than 3.5mm jacks.
Then look up "volume pot wiring" in google, there will probably be some sort of pic that will be a lot clearer than: wire ground to pin one, output signal to pin2, input signal to pin3 on the pot.
Repeat for the other channel.Well that's the million dollar question. Remember just because it costs more doesn't mean it's better, Bose it a perfect exmple of this.
That being said, I think you are best off spending most of your money on speakers, as they are almost always the weakest link in most sound setups I've found. For that sort of money you may be able to pick up some 2nd hand Pro-ac's, but replacement drivers for the are pricey as hell, so be careful.I've tried a modded Quad 405, modded Cambrige Audio A3i, and a few other amps I can't remember the name of but I prefer the way the Amp6 sounds over these. I really want to hear a better sounding amp than the amp6, but I haven't yet... I havent spent lots of time trying different (high-end?) amps however. I only tried out what I have lying around the house.
It also depends what sort of speakers you plan to buy. The Amp6 is perfect for bookshelf speakers, but it may not have enough power to drive low sensitivity floorstanders with high SPL, especially if they are 8 even 16 ohm impedance... But then there is always the amp 9, more power and more channels, it's not too late to go for the amp9...
Have you considered going the DIY route with the speakers? Type "zaph audio" into google for a bit of inspiration.
OMG, I didn't realise this post would be this long, I appear to have got carried away.
Soldato
Soldato
Awesome. I'll order one.Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: Yes it does
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Hi Mike - thanks for the reply. I actually went ahead and ordered an amp6 basic and the 12 volt supply from the bay, although i am having some difficulty in getting it to work. I cannot seem to get any of the voltages stated in the back of the instruction manual. The first troubleshooting tip it gives is to check that the voltage across d1 (the main diode after the power supply) is correct. I presume that this is meant to give a reading of 12v, if so, this section of the amp is fine. But i am struggling to get the correct voltages over the other sections of the amp. Is there any advice you could give?
[I presume i am meant to be measuring from the -ve power terminal to the component in question?]
EDIT: Now working from one channel - sounds really good, even with a poor cable system and fairly low bit rate mp3s!
[I presume i am meant to be measuring from the -ve power terminal to the component in question?]
EDIT: Now working from one channel - sounds really good, even with a poor cable system and fairly low bit rate mp3s!
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