The Dublin Riots (video)

Scuzi · 9 Mar 2006 at 18:17

Orcish-Horde said:
Nothing sectarian in what I said but this thread is sectarain in its very nature which to me as a Unionist/loyalist says "You not welcome in our Ireland".

The Irish are without a doubt the most intolerant people this side of europe.

I and many other Irish nationals have no issue with the principles of Loyalists marching in the Republic, it's in our nature to promote free speech. The problem I had with this particular incident was that it was guaranteed to cause trouble. I predicted when I first heard news that this march was given approval that there would be a bloody big riot and I was right. Dublin is a peaceful city as far as politics, culture and religion goes but like anywhere, there will be a small minority who take extreme action in protest and therefore scorn the relaity of the Irish peoples views. It's because of these people that I didn't want the parade to go ahead.

Another thing is equality. Do you honestly think if Óglaigh na hÉireann and a few thousand like minded people wanted to march through the centre of London to celebrate the 1916 Easter Rising, it would get approved? There would be chaos and we know this, hence why such applications aren't made. If such marches were allowed then tolerance on both sides would likely rise for the better. Because of the unionist/loyalist lack of tolerance for Republican views, we don't want the Orange order marching through our areas. If tolerance was increased on both sides we wouldn't have these issues.

It comes down to tolerance, something which cannot be increased without change. Until people like Dr. 'No' Paisley are willing to sit down and talk and accept that people from the other side are making changes for the better, the current situation will never change.

Chronos-X · 9 Mar 2006 at 20:21

What is your opionion of Sinn Fein, Scuzi?

Scuzi · 9 Mar 2006 at 20:40

Chronos-X said:
What is your opionion of Sinn Fein, Scuzi?

That's a hard one. I support a lot but not all of their policies although the fact that they are the political wing of a paramilitary group usually left me wondering whether or not I should vote them. Since Óglaigh na hÉireann (the proper original IRA) have now ceased their campaign of violence I have no problem voting Sinn Féin. They are the only party that has shown signs of changing their ways and moving forward. They are making progress towards a better Ireland and Northern Ireland, whereas the DUP for example still refuse blindly to make any sort of progress. The sooner Paisley kicks the bucket, the sooner Northern Ireland can move forward. It's his hardline, blinkered and bigoted views that have Northern Ireland in the state it is in. Until he dies, Northern Ireland will remain under direct rule from British parliament.

On a local level, the Sinn Féin councillors have been the most helpful in my area. They really do go out of their way to listen to what the people have to say, rather than tell the people what they think they want to hear like almost all the other parties. The area that I was from was one of the lowest supported through funding and it was Sinn Féin who spoke up for us and got the place turned around.

A couple of years ago I wasn't entirely comfortable voting for Sinn Féin but I'm OK with it now.

I would just like to clarify that Sinn Féin has nothing to do with the splinter group paramilitaries such as the RIRA and the CIRA who are still fighting their cause through violence.

Vicar · 9 Mar 2006 at 20:45

Well having just got back from County Kerry in the SW or Ireland, I got there the Fraiday before the riots. My wife comes from their, and its got pretty hardcore Republican villages, one of which where i Drink is where the President of Sinn Fein comes from, so I am told.... Me being a Scottish Prodestant Rangers supporter sometimes makes it a bit difficult for me. I have been accepted for years over there, get a ribbing etc and nothing has ever come of it. But that saturday when it was all over the news on RTE was pretty uncomfortable for me to say the least. What makes it worse while the majority of Irish people were appauled by a small minded minority of idiots, it was stirring up some amount of emotion in the pub I was drinking in... I had to leave as my brother in law said it be a good idea....

I reckon this has set back Ireland as a whole a good few years back. As I said I am Prodestant and I never make anything of it. I have no affilation with the Orange order, but I am proud of my routes etc, but thats that. I married a Kerry Women, got married in a Catholic Church, and my Daughter was christend over there as well.

The orange order should not have came down to Dublin for a march that no one in Dublin would have been interested in.

All I can say is Grrrr..... I go over at least 4 times a year and have always enjoyed it, but this time it was slighty different... Plus the wife was pretty uipset also about the incident in the pub.....

WJA96 · 9 Mar 2006 at 22:03

Vicar said:
Plus the wife was pretty upset also about the incident in the pub.....

The problem is that it runs so deep. All the songs/poems etc. about the British brutalizing the Irish before/during and after the potato famine really don't help to encourage a progressive state of mind.

I always found common ground by emphasizing that I hated the English just as much as they did. Then we had a few more drinks and everything calmed down again.

Orcish-Horde · 9 Mar 2006 at 23:05

Scuzi said:
That's a hard one. I support a lot but not all of their policies although the fact that they are the political wing of a paramilitary group usually left me wondering whether or not I should vote them. Since Óglaigh na hÉireann (the proper original IRA) have now ceased their campaign of violence I have no problem voting Sinn Féin. They are the only party that has shown signs of changing their ways and moving forward. They are making progress towards a better Ireland and Northern Ireland, whereas the DUP for example still refuse blindly to make any sort of progress. The sooner Paisley kicks the bucket, the sooner Northern Ireland can move forward. It's his hardline, blinkered and bigoted views that have Northern Ireland in the state it is in. Until he dies, Northern Ireland will remain under direct rule from British parliament.

Your the blinkered bigot but a deluled one at that. Do you realy think that the death of one man will make all Unionists embrace Irish republicainism? Never Never Never as big Ian would say, he knows to tow the line because if he didn't he be nothing more than another Trimble. As for Sinn Fein they are the IRA alway was and always will be, the same crowd that stoped you joining the RAF or was that another IRA apologist. You will be under British rule the rest for your life learn to live with it.

cyborg · 9 Mar 2006 at 23:47

I don't care who has 'rule' over us, I just don't want there to be fighting, or a divide anymore. I feel that it should be one ireland, but if it had to be british rule it doesn't really bother me, as long as the fighting stopped, and the past left were it should be. Why can't we all just get along eh? Orcish, you say "You will be under British rule the rest for your life learn to live with it."
as to entice anger, it even angers me and i don't care if we are or not, its just the fact your saying it like that.

On topic, the march should have never happened, similar to what orcish done, it wasn't a march at all, certainly not for the reasons they said. It was known to cause trouble (ridiculously obvious). All to mock, and stir tensions.

Chronos-X · 9 Mar 2006 at 23:53

How about we offer a compromise and offer our ownership of Ireland to expand to the south as well

Just imagine a fully united british isles.

cyborg · 9 Mar 2006 at 23:57

I actually quite like that idea, a fully united british isles, but ireland is separate, in the same sense that scotland and wales are separate from england, thus governed internally.

me227 · 9 Mar 2006 at 23:59

I really don't care who rules us. I just want whats best for N.Ireland be it throught less fighting or better industry and jobs and quality of living.

cyborg · 10 Mar 2006 at 00:02

Better car insurance!! (please please please)

Scuzi · 10 Mar 2006 at 00:03

Orcish-Horde said:
Your the blinkered bigot but a deluled one at that. Do you realy think that the death of one man will make all Unionists embrace Irish republicainism? Never Never Never as big Ian would say, he knows to tow the line because if he didn't he be nothing more than another Trimble. As for Sinn Fein they are the IRA alway was and always will be, the same crowd that stoped you joining the RAF or was that another IRA apologist. You will be under British rule the rest for your life learn to live with it.

You misunderstood me. I have no problem with Northern Ireland remaining under British rule, it's the DIRECT British rule from Westminster that I have a problem with. Our politicians should be up in Stormont talking about the future of Northern Ireland, earning their huge paychecks. Paisley is the reason this isn't going to happen anytime soon, he's afraid to talk because it goes against everything he has said for the past 60 odd years - his bigoted, racist, intolerant attitude is not compatible with todays government. When he goes I feel that both Unionists and Republicans will be willing to change and move forward.

Sinn Féin are associated with the IRA, yes. So what? They are now pursuing their goals through peaceful means. At least they are making changes for the better. I could go on about the DUP, PUP etc. links to paramilitary groups but that won't get this discussion anywhere. Don't start about the splinter groups either because they have nothing to do with Sinn Féin and I don't have ANY support for them.

The IRA didn't prevent me from joining the forces, I don't know where you got that from. It was a group of arses who had nothing to do with the official IRA.

Morlan · 10 Mar 2006 at 02:37

Orcish-Horde said:
Nothing sectarian in what I said but this thread is sectarian in its very nature which to me as a Unionist/loyalist says "You not welcome in our Ireland".

Unionists are welcome in my country, ANYONE is welcome here as far as I'm concerned, but if your sole reason is to come here and to protest against the Irish people and its government then you can stay the F out. The Loyalists were here to deliberately stir up trouble amongst the hot-headed republicans, either that or they're extremely thick.

If I was living in London (as an Irish national) and Irish republicans wanted to march in the city in protest at the British, I would be equally peed off. I don't like people reminding me of the depressing suffering of the Irish people over the past 800 years at the hands of the British. I don't want to be reminded of the innocent British people murdered as a result either. It's depresses me deeply :mad:

cyborg said:
I actually quite like that idea, a fully united british isles, but ireland is separate, in the same sense that scotland and wales are separate from england, thus governed internally.

It's sounds nice? Ireland never belonged to the UK in the first place, it was just another victim to the blood-hungry British empire. I'm very glad not to be part of a kingdom with such a terrible history and reputation in that regard. If Ireland was still part of the UK, it one just be one large bitter Northern Ireland. People would still be trying to rid Ireland of English occupation, it would be a place where I would not want to live in.

me227 said:
I really don't care who rules us. I just want whats best for N.Ireland be it throught less fighting or better industry and jobs and quality of living.

As we all do.

Orcish-Horde · 10 Mar 2006 at 07:23

Morlan said:
Unionists are welcome in my country, ANYONE is welcome here as far as I'm concerned, but if your sole reason is to come here and to protest against the Irish people and its government then you can stay the F out. The Loyalists were here to deliberately stir up trouble amongst the hot-headed republicans, either that or they're extremely thick.

If I was living in London (as an Irish national) and Irish republicans wanted to march in the city in protest at the British, I would be equally peed off. I don't like people reminding me of the depressing suffering of the Irish people over the past 800 years at the hands of the British. I don't want to be reminded of the innocent British people murdered as a result either. It's depresses me deeply

You want to stick your head in the sand and forget about the innocent people murdered by the IRA. At the same time when these poeple come to your capital to high light the actions for the IRA, you view it as an attempt to stir up trouble. Did it ever occure to you that we view the Irish as our murderous oppressor just as you view the English?

Morlan · 11 Mar 2006 at 01:42

Orcish-Horde said:
Did it ever occure to you that we view the Irish as our murderous oppressor just as you view the English?

I don't view the English as murderous oppressors! that's all in the past. The majority of people in Northern Ireland don't view the Irish as murderous oppressors either, that's absolute nonsense. If I did have that view, I wouldn't have lived in the UK for 2 years and befriended many Brits! The only murderous oppressors are the Irish and British scumbag minority killing innocent people.

Orcish-Horde said:
At the same time when these poeple come to your capital to high light the actions for the IRA, you view it as an attempt to stir up trouble.

I really don't have an issue with IRA victims themselves marching in Dublin. ~But why bring the Orange Order, Union Jacks and other anti-Republican paraphernalia? The Loveulster rally was banned a few months ago from Belfast city centre by the police. How they were allowed to attempt a rally in Dublin is beyond me.

This is a comment posted by the admin of the official Love Ulster website: loveulster.com in a discussion about the proposed marches in Dublin:

"I can't wait to see the faces on the nationalists when the union-jacks and the ulster flags are flown"

Would you view such a comment as an attempt to stir up trouble in the Republic? I certainly do.

Orcish-Horde · 11 Mar 2006 at 10:45

Morlan said:
I don't view the English as murderous oppressors! that's all in the past. The majority of people in Northern Ireland don't view the Irish as murderous oppressors either, that's absolute nonsense. If I did have that view, I wouldn't have lived in the UK for 2 years and befriended many Brits! The only murderous oppressors are the Irish and British scumbag minority killing innocent people.

That would be the same minority that give the oppressors their vote? Unionists didn't vote for a bunch of murders onlike the Irish that voted on mass for Sinn Fein(The IRA).

Morlan said:
:
I really don't have an issue with IRA victims themselves marching in Dublin. ~But why bring the Orange Order, Union Jacks and other anti-Republican paraphernalia? The Loveulster rally was banned a few months ago from Belfast city centre by the police. How they were allowed to attempt a rally in Dublin is beyond me.

You all have this thing about the orange order and any sign of our britishness. That is what we are should we stop being ourselfs for fear that republicains may take offence? Like I said the Irish are intolerant.........

Morlan said:
This is a comment posted by the admin of the official Love Ulster website: loveulster.com in a discussion about the proposed marches in Dublin:

Would you view such a comment as an attempt to stir up trouble in the Republic? I certainly do.

Lets link that quote and see the context in which it was made?

teaboy5 · 11 Mar 2006 at 11:45

Yeah bringing union-jacks to wave in your faces thats just madness. Just like we have put up with the irish flag being waved in our faces everyday up north. And to the point where we cant even fly our own flag (UJ) on public buildings for fear of making someone mad. I really feel for you having to look at the union-jack for a day.