The end to the UK's new carriers?

[alex24]

We can't allow it to fail, a showing of trust would have to be the first step in trying to create peace between nations, and the risk it's necessary to take in order to try and make things better. I think we'd get by without a huge aircraft carrier and nuclear weapons. We have to rely on the people of these countries wanting peace and an end to war too.

It's just a shame the world has come to this now we're so technologically advanced and more than capable of living together in peace.

I know you're right though, it won't happen, we will re-arm and things will escalate, as this country is full of cowards who'd rather try to hide behind machines of war than actually sort the problems out. That's life eh, great.

 

[Glaucus]

We can't allow it to fail, a showing of trust would have to be the first step in trying to create peace between nations,

and how do you stop it failing. some countrys hate us and changing there mind will not happen. Come live in the real world.

 

[sidthesexist]

We can't allow it to fail, a showing of trust would have to be the first step in trying to create peace between nations,

Unfortunately appeasement gets you nowhere as shown here

A wing of the Taliban based in a Pakistani tribal area bordering Afghanistan say they have scrapped a peace deal with the government.

The group led by Hafiz Gul Bahadur in North Waziristan withdrew from the deal as the army stepped up its offensive against the Taliban in the north-west.

BBC


Some people in this world only understand a good hard smack on the nose, and how is our military supposed to do that if we have taken away all of their tools? and lets not forget this country has it's own history of appeasement during the late thirties and that didn't get us very far did it?

 

[alex24]

It's the fact that you've shown you're ready to stop fighting that's the most important thing. Should it fail we're not exactly defenceless, but re-arming and nuclear weapons is just unnecessary. I don't think countries hate us, I think they find it in their political and economic interest to be aligned with certain other countries that we need to feed our oil habit for one.

Surely the worst thing is just being totally averse to change, burying your head in the sand and not even trying? How are things ever supposed to get better that way?

 

[Firestar_3x]

I really don't understand people with views like: "Oh its going to be ok", "Oh we just have to trust them", You lot are usually the short sited bunch who are the first to squeal when something goes wrong.

Several nations on this planet would like nothing better than to wipe us off the face of this earth, not renewing or upgrading our defences opens us up to attack from these people, the only reason it hasn't happened already is if they did we could defend ourselves and if push came to shove we could cause such serious damage they wouldn't have a country to rule anymore.

That’s why we need a upgraded nuclear deterrent, that’s why we need more troops, that’s why we need these new aircraft that’s why we need these new ships.

 

[Manlove is my forte]

We can't allow it to fail, a showing of trust would have to be the first step in trying to create peace between nations, and the risk it's necessary to take in order to try and make things better. I think we'd get by without a huge aircraft carrier and nuclear weapons. We have to rely on the people of these countries wanting peace and an end to war too.

It's just a shame the world has come to this now we're so technologically advanced and more than capable of living together in peace.

I know you're right though, it won't happen, we will re-arm and things will escalate, as this country is full of cowards who'd rather try to hide behind machines of war than actually sort the problems out. That's life eh, great.

Worked well for Poland back in 1939.

Can you honestly say Humanity has become more civil in the last 70 years than in the previous 100k years we have been on this planet?

 

[alex24]

Worked well for Poland back in 1939.

Can you honestly say Humanity has become more civil in the last 70 years than in the previous 100k years we have been on this planet?

Point taken (and from the chaps above), but my point is we're not going to make it any better by preparing to fight them. They need to wan't peace too, rather than wanting to kill us all, it won't work if we're the only ones willing to give it a try. How do you know what it's like living in country that officially wants to be at war with us? I don't think the people living there would be all too keen about going to a war where both sides stand to lose many lives.

Sure my view comes across as idealistic and naive, I'm really being the devil's advocate here and trying to see how open minded people are towards ending war, I know these things don't happen overnight.

 

[Fusion]

There's nothing wrong with engaging in dialogue with nations as Obama has done, but look at Iran- he offered out a hand, gave them a chance of a fresh start and it's been pushed away.

As ever I shall quote Theodore Roosevelt- "Speak softly and carry a big stick".

 

[mmj_uk]

Worked well for Poland back in 1939.

Can you honestly say Humanity has become more civil in the last 70 years than in the previous 100k years we have been on this planet?

Technology improves but mankind doesn't, which is scary considering the nukes available to us now.

As for the carrier our biggest defense is the US anyway, if Russia or China wanted rid of us it wouldn't be too difficult for them given our tiny land mass.

Anyway, aircraft carriers are mainly offensive tools what do we need those for?

 

[Stolly]

Yes, so it's not codes but navigational data and GPS. Without accurate GPS the missiles are pretty useless.

Now why don't you FO? No idea what your problem is, other than living on the wrong side of the river of course

Thats entirely inaccurate. The missiles are not useless without GPS. In fact the Trident pre-dates GPS.

GPS may be useful, as it provides a quick way of finding the location of the launching submarine, but unless its changed recently the missiles themselves do not use GPS and are in fact inertially guided.

 

[Glaucus]

As for the carrier our biggest defense is the US anyway, if Russia or China wanted rid of us it wouldn't be too difficult for them given our tiny land mass.

Anyway, aircraft carriers are mainly offensive tools what do we need those for?

Pretty hard to take us with nukes. mutual destruction. You invade us. we wipe out huge areas of your home land.

What do we need offensive capabilities for. Did you really ask that.

Anything from humanity aid to going to war. It's a lot easier having a floating runway. Than trying to secure airbases in other countries.

 

[sidthesexist]

Anyway, aircraft carriers are mainly offensive tools what do we need those for?

Protecting out territories like the Falklands and other commonwealth countries?

 

[Stolly]

We can't allow it to fail, a showing of trust would have to be the first step in trying to create peace between nations, and the risk it's necessary to take in order to try and make things better. I think we'd get by without a huge aircraft carrier and nuclear weapons. We have to rely on the people of these countries wanting peace and an end to war too.

If we close our eyes and want it hard enough we can make all the nasty people go away, eh Alex ?

 

[GreatAuk]

Some people in this world only understand a good hard smack on the nose, and how is our military supposed to do that if we have taken away all of their tools? and lets not forget this country has it's own history of appeasement during the late thirties and that didn't get us very far did it?

This.
Even if the UK downed all arms and said oh hai there come and be peaceful with us, other countries would just abuse use instead... it's not all about what 'we' do, it's about the whole world, and at this point in time (and probably at every point in time) getting rid of all defenses is just stupid.

Eh? because you are arguing a point of something you know crap all about and seem intent on spouting any crap which comes out of your mouth as fact with out looking into it before hand.

I've got to agree with KaHn here...

 

[alex24]

If we close our eyes and want it hard enough we can make all the nasty people go away, eh Alex ?

Constructive comment, though not quite what I'm suggesting is it.

 

[Glaucus]

though not quite what I'm suggesting is it.

that is what you are suggesting though.

 

[Stolly]

Constructive comment, though not quite what I'm suggesting is it.

You are suggesting that if we try really hard to not be offensive to anyone, we can live in peace with the world until we get steam rollered like Poland, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, South Korea, China, Greece, Ethiopia, Czechoslovakia, Tibet and certainly other places in the last 60 or so years.

 

[daz]

Considering there's a recession, shouldn't things be getting cheaper?

 

[sidthesexist]

Considering there's a recession, shouldn't things be getting cheaper?

They ordered the steel and did the contract for construction before the recession iirc? and then push the construction back when the financial problems hit, pushing a contract back generally just add's to the costs, so no real surprise?

 

[daz]

They ordered the steel and did the contract for construction before the recession iirc? and then push the construction back when the financial problems hit, pushing a contract back generally just add's to the costs, so no real surprise?

Commodities like steel etc hit rock bottom last year so it's a little disappointing that the overall price of this build has increased by £1b. Someone must have overlooked something big somewhere for such a large increase in costs.