Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)

[Tefal]

A very, very, minor point but one that may be of relevance to some.

If we leave the EU, then any goods ordered from Europe (not unknown to locate hard to find CD's or BluRays which don't get a UK release on Amazon.de) will no longer be exempt from import duty, due to VAT paid in Germany or wherever. These will be subject presumably to the £15 limit same as other "foreign" imports at which point UK VAT, import duty and the hated PO/courier handling fee will need to be paid.

That suddenly makes that €19.99 disc a much more expensive proposition.

Depends on the rate normally 20 euros would be under 15 quid.

But that assums that during the 2 year exit negoations neother europe or the uk thinks that preserving free or at least discounted trade is not something worth pursuing.


Which i think is extremely unlikley

 

[Tefal]

Every time power has been pooled from the local chieftain going in with the next tribe or a few lords swearing allegiance to a baron right up to the amalgamation of the british isles into the uk (Ireland opted out, mostly). And now the combining of the states of europe into something bigger.

It's the way the world has progressed for thousands of years, are you saying this point where the UK is now is perfection and we should just stop that progress here?

.

Bit of a false dichotomy there isnt it?

The options are not simply limited to;

"The UK alone forever"
"The combining of EU states"

As for it being "the way the world has progressed" thats not true there are times it's been successful (ie the USA) and times its been a disaster (ie the USSR).

Its beyond foolish to think grouping together regardless of the individual states circumstances will always end well, just as its foolish to suggest leaving the EU would mean never forming or joining a political union again.

 

[helpimcrap]

Do people genuinely think EU countries won't trade with us? Companies like BMW, Audi, Seat, Citroen etc to name a few. If sales suffer they may move manufacturing to UK to avoid import costs and source materials locally?

Stay in - nothing changes except we get more annoyed with EU. Germany lost 2 world wars but has control of Europe now. Strong economy because they're not allowed an army? The EU is represented by ministers no one has any say on. Democratic?

PS reserve the right to be wrong but this is my little take on it. Foreign companies get bigger and UK ones suffer and we can only trade with who the EU allows us to?

 

[scorza]

This is not our one and only chance to leave the EU. Where did you get that idea? This is already the second one were having.

This is the first chance we've had to leave - the first referendum was whether or not to join the common market. We really aren't going to get another chance - Cameron himself has said that the reason he's calling this referendum is to put this issue to bed once and for all.

 

[dowie]

Do people genuinely think EU countries won't trade with us? Companies like BMW, Audi, Seat, Citroen etc to name a few. If sales suffer they may move manufacturing to UK to avoid import costs and source materials locally?

obviously - I mean people in the US and Australia have never even heard of BMW, Audi etc.. it is well known that European car companies, manufacturers etc.. only deal with EU countries

 

[Trifid]

As for it being "the way the world has progressed" thats not true there are times it's been successful (ie the USA) and times its been a disaster (ie the USSR).

I liked this quote from another forum.

"For a stable political entity, cultural convergence should precede political convergence. See the USA, GB, Germany for successful examples.
Examples of what happens when you do it the other way around include Yugoslavia, the USSR and the EU."

 

[Tefal]

I liked this quote from another forum.

"For a stable political entity, cultural convergence should precede political convergence. See the USA, GB, Germany for successful examples.
Examples of what happens when you do it the other way around include Yugoslavia, the USSR and the EU."

That is good.

I feel the EU would have been a much bigger success if it had been kept to the wealthy culturally simmilar countries.

But polititcans seemed to want to be incharge of a grand empire even if it meant ruining it.

The nordic states, uk ireland germany france holland Italy spain.

That was a sensible group.

Poland romaina etc no

 

[Skunkworks]

^Agree with both posts.

 

[v0n]

That is good.

I feel the EU would have been a much bigger success if it had been kept to the wealthy culturally simmilar countries.

But polititcans seemed to want to be incharge of a grand empire even if it meant ruining it.

The nordic states, uk ireland germany france holland Italy spain.

That was a sensible group.

Poland romaina etc no

The point of EU was common market and trade, not building empire of wealth and culture. EU expands to equalise economical differences between new member states and founding members. It is not done to litter streets of Blighty with over competitive chippies and brickies, but to provide 38 million new gobs for King Edward potatoes and Cadbury chocolates or to open doors to 400 Central European supermarkets for Tesco's hostile take over. That sort of thing.

 

[v0n]

[edit] Nevermind.. too much wine

 

[delta0]

With leave becoming so compelling why are some MPs and also businesses holding onto remaining in the EU? So many businesses and MPs want out.

 

[bitslice]

I feel the EU would have been a much bigger success if it had been kept to the wealthy culturally similar countries.

The nordic states, uk ireland germany france holland Italy spain.
That was a sensible group.

Poland romaina etc no

Agree, good point.
Although I would have included Poland?

Adding Greece/Croatia/Estonia etc was just retarded, and the mere thought of adding Turkey is just so super awesome retarded that I lack the words.

It's exactly because it is so super awesome retarded that I fully believe this generation will allow them in without question. You can't have teenagers wandering around with "welcome refugees herpy derp" banners and not conclude that this generation are the most naive group in history, and will probably de-evolve into the Eloi if they get to live that long.

If I could I'd vote to remove Sweden, no point in being dragged down by their mistakes.

 

[Danthus]

Given today's events, why is the EU so silent about Turkey?

 

[Dave M]

I liked this quote from another forum.

"For a stable political entity, cultural convergence should precede political convergence. See the USA, GB, Germany for successful examples.
Examples of what happens when you do it the other way around include Yugoslavia, the USSR and the EU."

That is good.

I feel the EU would have been a much bigger success if it had been kept to the wealthy culturally simmilar countries.

But polititcans seemed to want to be incharge of a grand empire even if it meant ruining it.

The nordic states, uk ireland germany france holland Italy spain.

That was a sensible group.

Poland romaina etc no

Poland, Romania and Bulgaria are reasonably similar, they are as similar as protestant Britain and Germany are to catholic Spain and Italy.

A country like turkey would be an over-reach at the current time because they are having an internal issue with secular vs religious control atm. Maybe one day

The issue with the eastern accession countries is due to economic differences.

I would point anyone asking that question to the hand wringing concerning Spain joining the EU, which at the time was a much much poorer country than the founding EEA states. Hell Italy was pretty bad in comparison at the time.

I always thought part of the point of the EU was to bring reform and investment to increase GDP and thus improve the market for all EU members.

It is my true belief that the EU market would not be as big as it is today (i,.e. the biggest consumer bloc in the world) if it had not developed the weaker economies of southern Europe.

The only point of the EU project is that one day the economies of Eastern Europe will follow the same path and be a benefit to us all.

 

[Dave M]

Given today's events, why is the EU so silent about Turkey?

What event do you think happened today?

Their have been grave concerns over Turkey's anti-democratic behavior for years and it has effected EU relations considerably.

Hungary and more recently Poland has also caused concern within the EU.

 

[Dave M]

Agree, good point.
Although I would have included Poland?

Adding Greece/Croatia/Estonia etc was just retarded, and the mere thought of adding Turkey is just so super awesome retarded that I lack the words.

What's so bad about Greece, Croatia and Estonia?

 

[dowie]

What event do you think happened today?

Their have been grave concerns over Turkey's anti-democratic behavior for years and it has effected EU relations considerably.

Hungary and more recently Poland has also caused concern within the EU.

a major newspaper raided and shut down - EU rather cautious about it as they need Turkey to co-operate with the refugee crisis Germany helped create and one which open borders within the Schengen area also don't help to prevent/deter

 

[dowie]

Boris on the French threats:

 

[Mr Jack]

If I could I'd vote to remove Sweden, no point in being dragged down by their mistakes.

Sweden? The country with happier people than us, higher productivity than us, and lower crime than us? Yeah, they're terrible

 

[Mr Jack]

Do people genuinely think EU countries won't trade with us?

No-one thinks that the EU won't trade with us. That would be silly. What is possible outcome is that trade becomes more difficult and that because we rely a lot more on trade with the EU than they rely on us (the absolute amount of EU trade to the UK is higher but the EU is a much larger trading block so it makes up much less of the whole) this will hurt us a lot more than it will hurt them.

If sales suffer they may move manufacturing to UK to avoid import costs and source materials locally?

The UK is unlikely to be a big enough market to make this worthwhile.

Stay in - nothing changes except we get more annoyed with EU. Germany lost 2 world wars but has control of Europe now. Strong economy because they're not allowed an army?

Huh? Germany has the world's 9th most powerful military. As for being in control, Germany can and does lose votes in the EU. It's influence comes from being the largest economy in the EU.

The EU is represented by ministers no one has any say on. Democratic?

The EU is undemocratic is equal proportion to the degree to which it is accountable to national governments. You cannot both have a directly democratic EU and have national governments retain sovereignty. EU councillors are appointed by democratically elected national leaders in the same way as we appoint diplomats and so forth to conduct our negotiations with other countries.