Man of Honour
Old thread here: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18715436
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
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Err, the English language would disagree with you there.
Influenced would suggest that you were considering both sides and that OcUK played a minority role in a recently made or still fluctuating decision.
Reinforced would suggest that a decision had already been made and this information was just reaffirming that decision.
Having just two options is a very deliberate decision. We've kept it the same as the official poll question. As the months go on, we should see the percentages vary as undecided voters go one way or another.
These laws aren't made by faceless people, they are voted by the European Parliament, who we send MEPs to. Well, unless you voted for a UKIP MEP who don't engage or often even attend the European Parliament. If you want to have a say in EU law, stop voting for people who don't turn up.
The Germans have huge power in Europe because they engage with Europe. Standing on the sidelines is why our voice is not as loud as the second largest economy in Europe should be.
Touche.
Democracy is not the perfect solution that many people think it is - and even if it were, our implementation is far from the most representative.
There will be new polls every month, so your change in position will be reflected as the months go by.
At least MEPs are elected using PR. You could argue that is more democratic than general elections.
Surely they wouldn't be unpopular if we had PR? Indeed, you'd be able to properly quantify their support.
MEPs are there to debate and vote on laws just like MPs are. They are no more run by bureaucrats than the UK is run by the civil service.
If we had a strong set of MEPs who built coalitions with other European parties, then we're not a small voice, we just need to work to build support in Europe. And many UK voters are not alone in many of the concerns around sovereignty and immigration - other Europeans also share this, so building that support to change Europe could be done if we decided that we're going to make the most of our position.
That's not different to any other coalition. Your're also assuming that we're not part of that bigger group and that the group doesn't have the same priorities that we'd like.
As for UKIP's attendance record, I'll quote the DM. Don't worry, the irony isn't lost on me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...meron-warns-UK-needs-politicians-turn-up.html
Just because it's been posted before doesn't mean it's not just as relevant now as it was then.
If we want Europe to work for us, we need to be invested in it and we're not. Can you agree that if we do vote to stay in, that we should make the most of the situation?
Only through private member's bills which are rare. Most of the UK's legislation is proposed by quangos or government department, by mostly unelected civil servants.
I'd also like to make the point that MEPs can also vote to reject legislation which they have done.
That is true, but EU commission posts are chosen by heads of EU member states who in the UK aren't directly elected either.
The first bit isn't any different to the UK, the second, I'll admit is true, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.
That's because many MEPs are not interested in building alliances and relationships with other MEPs. If they did, then we'd have much more influence to actually block laws. Of course, if we sit at the back of the room and complain when nobody listens to us then we're not going to get anywhere - that's why politicians need to be talking and negotiating.
That is already the case regardless of whether we're in the EU or not.
So we can see the change in opinion each month up until the vote. Many people are changing their opinions as the date gets closer, so having a single poll grows less and less useful.
Well, it's a bit different as the UK FPTP system leads to less, larger parties where party leadership can whip MPs.
Which I don't think is a good thing for the record.
Put the tin foil away.
I haven't continued that because it's clear that despite my attempts to explain it to you, you still completely miss the point. Alas you don't get to decide who posts in this thread.
There are lots of very good reasons to decimalise other than integration with other EU states. Conflating the issues doesn't help.
*Sigh*
Lets try this one more time then. You've cited that our influence is declining. Yes, this is obvious because we're not invested in the EU. This is our doing.
We haven't displayed the leadership necessary to carry favour and decide policy. The UK has been the figurative child having a tantrum in the corner and saying the don't want to join the party, yet is sad when nobody wants to talk to them. It's petulant.
If we did decide that we want to be an active member of the EU, those stats would be different.
Those facts do not predict the future nor do they prove what may of happened if we took another approach.
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