The FA CUP Fourth Round ** Spoilers ** [23rd - 26th January 2015]

Moothead2 said:
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That's a standard position for a keeper, not a defender. If his arm was at a 45 degree angle or something I could maybe agree that it wasn't, but it's completely outstretched and he had a long time before the cross was made to get his arms out of the way of potentially getting in the way of the ball.
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his arms no further out then then the brighton player
 
jonneymendoza said:
his arms no further out then then the brighton player
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It was a pretty clear penalty, his arm position has no relation to the brighton player except that if Chambers tried to clear the ball and it hit the Brighton players arm it would be a handball as well.

Chambers is attempting to block a shot, you aren't allowed to use your arms, his arm is WAY out from his body, that is given as a penalty way more often than not. If his arm was down by his side and it hit his arm, not much you can do about that. But when you know a cross is coming in having your arms up and away from your body is asking for a penalty. Ref bottled it luckily, but it was certainly lucky.
 
What happened to ball to hand? That's not hand to ball...I don't think I've heard of penalties being given for a hand not being in the correct position.
 
Andybtsn said:
What happened to ball to hand? That's not hand to ball...I don't think I've heard of penalties being given for a hand not being in the correct position.
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Are you saying you've been in a coma for the past 20 years.... because countless penalties have been given in such situations throughout the past 20 years, for a hand ball where the arm was out and didn't move after the ball was hit. I'd say it probably happens in the prem league alone at least a couple of times a month if not more often.
Ball to hand means little. Hand to ball suggests intention and should generally always be given generally means a card of one colour or another depending on situation, deliberate hand ball on line, red card, edge of box, maybe yellow, penalty either way. A non deliberate handball (ball to hand) is rarely even a card, almost never a red(except when ref gets it wrong basically) but still a penalty. But what you're saying is 11 people can stand on the line from say a freekick with their arms out covering every inch of the goal and if it hits someone's hand because the hand didn't move it wouldn't be a penalty.

Ball to hand when the hand is in a stupid position, an unnatural position(as in basically not down at the sides) has been a penalty for a LONG time.

Do you not remember on a weekly basis seeing half your defenders standing their with arms behind their backs to avoid such ball to hand contact, why do you think they do that.
 
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What about when they have their hands on their crotch and it's hits that part? Will they be reprimanded? Soon you will be saying players have to run around the pitch with their hands behind their back.

I don't see how a player can do anything about a ball being smashed at their hand, players are clever enough and good enough to just aim for a defenders hand to win a penalty if that was the case.
 
Andybtsn said:
What about when they have their hands on their crotch and it's hits that part? Will they be reprimanded? Soon you will be saying players have to run around the pitch with their hands behind their back.

I don't see how a player can do anything about a ball being smashed at their hand, players are clever enough and good enough to just aim for a defenders hand to win a penalty if that was the case.
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Except in this case the ball would have gotten past were it not for his arm. For me it's the amount of time between the Brighton player running at Chambers teasing a cross and the fact he kept his arm out there. It wasn't smashed at his arm, it was crossed in and because his arm was out that cross didn't reach the target player. Besides I've seen plenty of penalties given when players protect their face in the wall with their arm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b051ct29/the-fa-cup-201415-highlights

Go to 18 minutes. His arm is out for far too long, 95% of defenders would have their arms behind their back here to avoid handball.
 
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It's basically saying a penalty should always be given if the ball hits the hand of a player as there is no standard to how a player should stand or whatnot. There aren't many players who put their hands behind their back whilst defending and I can imagine them not doing it as it affects their balance. Only Terry and Ivanovic do it consistently.

It's like the whole 'holding' argument at corners, you give a penalty for one referees are then forced to give them all. A lot of the time hand balls are accidental yet players will be reprimanded.
 
drunkenmaster said:
It was a pretty clear penalty, his arm position has no relation to the brighton player except that if Chambers tried to clear the ball and it hit the Brighton players arm it would be a handball as well.

Chambers is attempting to block a shot, you aren't allowed to use your arms, his arm is WAY out from his body, that is given as a penalty way more often than not. If his arm was down by his side and it hit his arm, not much you can do about that. But when you know a cross is coming in having your arms up and away from your body is asking for a penalty. Ref bottled it luckily, but it was certainly lucky.
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what i am saying is that the brigton players hands where just as far open as chambers.

my point being is that is a players natural position when trying to close down/prevent a cross.
 
That is clear as day ball to hand. Plus it was an attempted cross, so not even a shot on goal or clear cut chance! His arms are down and not up in the air trying to block it.

Never a penalty!
 
His arms were down in a natural position I would say, not a penalty. Savage though, was ambivalent towards him now I hate him. Awful, awful commentator.
 
Quick Q, why do teams go for warm weather training in other countries when it's cold here?

Man City did it and just reading up about the game tonight and turns out Stoke have also done it last week to prepare for their match tonight.

Surely it's best to train in the cold so you're used to it? :confused:
 
Savage is such a complete moron, "he's won the ball", well no he didn't, he missed the ball studded Moses above the ankle then marginal tapped the ball afterwards. Wasn't a massive lunge into it but a bit of a lunge.

Savage can't follow football at all, he miss calls almost everything he sees.
 
Moses had a pretty nice little goal there, had a good game from what I've seen, not been paying a whole lot of attention. SEcond goal well worked, simple finish, good ball across.

Bojan's first was a cracking striker from outside the box, he does score some good goals. The third was well played by Moses and good from Ireland as he could easily have stuck his head on the ball and maybe scored or just blocked it, ducked just out of the way and let a really nice shot end up in the back of the net.


Looked a bit like Bojan got his stud caught in the turf a bit maybe which caused his knee to get jerked, went off pretty early, he's been excellent for Stoke so would be a loss to have him injured. Though he walked off so maybe precautionary.
 
Bojan left the ground on crutches and was taken straight to hospital. Hope it's just precautionary in order to take the weight off. One good sign is that when Ireland was warming up Bojan signalled that he felt OK to continue and didn't want to come off.
 
Fear a little bit for bojan, hope he gets the all clear but I've got a feeling he could be out for a while. I tore my ACL a few years back and played on for 5 minutes with it so the fact he walked off doesn't give me any solice
 
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Yup, one of the issues though is you can have say a small tear or maybe a large knock which strained it both leaving it vulnerable to a full tear or just worsening the severity of it and then 10 mins later of playing on you have a 6-12 month recovery instead of a month off to fix a small tear.

Ozil iirc they thought maybe he had a small tear or just bruise/strained/some issue but played on, took part in training with germany then he went down again. Tt was worse that it was before though to what degree is a little unclear but it's certainly worth being careful.. particularly when it looked like a relatively in control game and cup rather than league.

Much much better to prevent it getting worse if you suspect some potential problem than let it progress into something much more serious.
 
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