The great EU debate

But they can eventually, sorry but they should never be allowed to claim benefits or only what they have put into the system from working, they end up having kids here, using the NHS and forcing kids into English schools. Look at Tower Hamlets, every single town will be like that if this vermin has the chance.

I don't disagree that the benefits situation is far from ideal but it is wrong to state they pop over and immediatly begin claiming benefits because they don't.

You are only like this because it doesn't effect you and you live in a nice cushy area full of liberals.

Plymouth is neither free from EU migrants (We have a significant Polish population infact) nor a cushy liberal area.
 
What are these benefits? Everyone keeps going on about them but usually only end up saying "trade lol" which is not part of the EU.

Firstly trade is part of the EU - what you mean is that trade benefits do neccesarily require the EU because there are certainly significant EU trade laws.

Secondly there are benefits (Which doesn't mean I am neccesarily in favour of the EU in its current form, infact I am not).

Here is an example - EU consumer law. It is EU law which, for example, forced car manufacturers to allow customers to have cars serviced by independant repair centres without voiding the manufacturers warranty.
 
First of all, how do you know if I'm English or not?

I have a good memory especially when it comes to poisonous little EU rats in the making. ;)

Second, when did I say "your" people as you so kindly put it should have that right taken away from them in my post? Please highlight it.

You think you can throw around derogatory remarks about it's people while you are living on these shore?

I didn't say "your" please reread what I posted.

Third of all, typical xenophobic attitude, you completely ignored anything I said and jumped straight to conclusions, you can't argue with people like this, you can't say you want to leave the EU because they aren't English, that kind of small minded thinking doesn't get any country anywhere.


And here come the ad homine attacks, you know you are such a hypocrite; I have been expressing my genuine concerns about what the actions of the free movement of labour has caused not only me but local men and women who just want to live and work, have a nice life.

What do I know though really? I'm just some Ignorant Englishman

The truth is, I've seen your posts every time something about the EU is posted, you're just an arrogant ignorant little xenophobic man who doesn't have an informed opinion on the subject and is not prepared to be educated because "they're not English", thanks for showing these forums your true colors, I'm sure your fellow little Englanders pub dwellers are extremely proud of you right now.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/

Here's a link to a national party that would probably appreciate the kind of intellectual debate your small mind can participate in.

Truth, truth!?!

I do have an informed opinion in some matters as I have witnessed the damage the EU is doing, you are calling me xenophobic for this! After all if you can't attack the argument attack the person.

You really do have some mental problems with the English don't you.

As for my little Englander pub dwellers, I don't even drink and I haven't been to a pub in months. You must be quite a bigoted little Marxist, if you think that being English and not being pro EU must makes people some sort of drunks?

Really though you should share your identity, I think your future constituents would be very interested in what you have to say about them.

Watch out guys i've shown my true colours today :o
 
I do love the way that us English are only 'patriotic' when it comes to immigration issues.

It's a shame really, we dont seem to have the level of pride in our country as other countries do. Go to America or Australia and you find flags flying everywhere, flags on the side of buses, flags on trains, flags on everything. People referred to in the press as 'The American People' or 'Australians', etc etc.

You just don't see that here. Infact the English flag seems more associated with football hooliganism than it does with pride in our country and it's just a real shame :(

Nobody seems to care until it comes to bashing people from elsewhere or talking about immigration and then suddenly its all about our heritage, etc etc :confused:
 
I think the real problem here is a lot of the general public who could vote on 'leave or stay' honestly wouldn't get or understand the pro's and con's, and people would make decisions on a 30 second advert trying to sway them one way or another.
 
[TW]Fox;20348371 said:
I do love the way that us English are only 'patriotic' when it comes to immigration issues.

It's a shame really, we dont seem to have the level of pride in our country as other countries do. Go to America or Australia and you find flags flying everywhere, flags on the side of buses, flags on trains, flags on everything. People referred to in the press as 'The American People' or 'Australians', etc etc.

You just don't see that here. Infact the English flag seems more associated with football hooliganism than it does with pride in our country and it's just a real shame :(

Nobody seems to care until it comes to bashing people from elsewhere or talking about immigration and then suddenly its all about our heritage, etc etc :confused:
I don't know if that was directed at me , Fox? But I have to agree. I don't even like football! :eek: It's a real shame that Britain has such a rich history and we don't celebrate it. :(

What I love about our shores the most is, you can go for a day trip somewhere and you can always find something new to see or do!

Or in the morning i'll sometimes greet someone good morning and with a smile and a Devonshire accent they will reply good morning, love (mainly women) :D

My missus is Australian and proud, we have some wonderful banter.
 
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[TW]Fox;20348371 said:
I do love the way that us English are only 'patriotic' when it comes to immigration issues.

It's a shame really, we dont seem to have the level of pride in our country as other countries do. Go to America or Australia and you find flags flying everywhere, flags on the side of buses, flags on trains, flags on everything. People referred to in the press as 'The American People' or 'Australians', etc etc.

You just don't see that here. Infact the English flag seems more associated with football hooliganism than it does with pride in our country and it's just a real shame :(

Nobody seems to care until it comes to bashing people from elsewhere or talking about immigration and then suddenly its all about our heritage, etc etc :confused:
Oh Christ, I've just found myself nodding in agreement with Fox... :D

I say England cuts ties with the past completely, cedes from the Union with Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales (toll booths on both side of the Severn bridge fortehwin ;) ) and commits to leading a European Union in close co-operation with two of the other ex colonial European powers, Germany and France... :)
 
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[TW]Fox;20348371 said:
I do love the way that us English are only 'patriotic' when it comes to immigration issues.

It's a shame really, we dont seem to have the level of pride in our country as other countries do. Go to America or Australia and you find flags flying everywhere, flags on the side of buses, flags on trains, flags on everything. People referred to in the press as 'The American People' or 'Australians', etc etc.

You just don't see that here. Infact the English flag seems more associated with football hooliganism than it does with pride in our country and it's just a real shame :(

Nobody seems to care until it comes to bashing people from elsewhere or talking about immigration and then suddenly its all about our heritage, etc etc :confused:

I think there's a balance to be struck between pride in your country and overblown celebration/belief in its infallibility which sometimes I feel America, at least, hasn't quite achieved. However it should be said I'm not the greatest fan of the overt flag waving patriotism, maybe on selected day(s) in the year but anything much more than that strikes me as a bit jingoistic.

I do agree that it's sad when patriotism becomes almost synonymous with xenophobia though.
 
[TW]Fox;20346543 said:
Thanks for the link, proves me right. You can't just turn up and claim benefits.

Except it didn't prove you right in the slightest, did it?

Also, you're living in Plymouth - a tiny little provincial city with hardly any issues from immigration - no wonder you've been able to cultivate such a 'caring' viewpoint -you're basically entirely uninformed as to the real issues that uncontrolled immigration have caused.

I'd go so far as to say that you're utterly clueless regarding this debate and as such your opinions are void. Maybe you should experience the real world instead of making over 100,000 posts on a forum.

Try living in London and seeing what it's like, to witness the real issues, Tower Hamlets, Barking, Plaistow etc, etc, massive parts of it are almost entirely devoid of native English people.

As for someone who said they'd visited London and felt it was fine, step outside the tourist areas and see the real impact - unlike you I've lived here all my life and do a job that involves seeing every part of it on a regular basis - the simple truth is that it is literally being overrun and is turning into an extremely expensive and unpleasant place to live as a result.



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Try living in London and seeing what it's like, to witness the real issues, Tower Hamlets, Barking, Plaistow etc, etc, massive parts of it are almost entirely devoid of native English people.

Oh yeah i agree with that. Try Elephant & Castle!!! jeeese it's like you've traveled to a different country!
 
[TW]Fox;20348371 said:
I do love the way that us English are only 'patriotic' when it comes to immigration issues.

It's a shame really, we dont seem to have the level of pride in our country as other countries do. Go to America or Australia and you find flags flying everywhere, flags on the side of buses, flags on trains, flags on everything. People referred to in the press as 'The American People' or 'Australians', etc etc.

You just don't see that here. Infact the English flag seems more associated with football hooliganism than it does with pride in our country and it's just a real shame :(

Nobody seems to care until it comes to bashing people from elsewhere or talking about immigration and then suddenly its all about our heritage, etc etc :confused:



Also this post is extremely ironic.

The reason that English people have been unable to express pride in their country is that for at least the past 20 years is has been close to outlawed to do so by the sense of guilt that liberals seem to desperate to force upon everyone else.

I'm pretty sure it was even outlawed to fly the flag of St George in certain circumstances, like in a cab, whereas you'll see flag of every other nation flying anywhere they want in our country.

So there's your reason - the real cause for that is sanctimonious, smug, self serving liberals who are just desperate to be seen as a 'caring' people whilst being utterly clueless of the real circumstances and the real damage those viewpoints cause.


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[TW]Fox;20348371 said:
I do love the way that us English are only 'patriotic' when it comes to immigration issues.

It's a shame really, we dont seem to have the level of pride in our country as other countries do. Go to America or Australia and you find flags flying everywhere, flags on the side of buses, flags on trains, flags on everything. People referred to in the press as 'The American People' or 'Australians', etc etc.

You just don't see that here. Infact the English flag seems more associated with football hooliganism than it does with pride in our country and it's just a real shame :(

Nobody seems to care until it comes to bashing people from elsewhere or talking about immigration and then suddenly its all about our heritage, etc etc :confused:

Nationalism is the measles of mankind.
 
But they can [claim benefits] eventually (...). Look at Tower Hamlets, every single town will be like that if this vermin has the chance.
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Try living in London and seeing what it's like, to witness the real issues, Tower Hamlets, Barking, Plaistow etc, etc, massive parts of it are almost entirely devoid of native English people.

Oh yeah i agree with that. Try Elephant & Castle!!! jeeese it's like you've traveled to a different country!


This always surprise me, as it always comes up in EU discussions. WTF has London being full of foreigners to do with EU? Minority in Tower Hamlets in predominantly Bangladeshi, and at 22% it is STILL minority. European immigrants in that borrow make up around 5% of total 8% of "other non British white minorities". Barking minority is predominantly black african. Minority, because the white British population makes up 80.9% of Barking's population, with the biggest ethnic minority being just 4.4% of the total ethnic makeup. Newham, where Plaistow is, is slightly different. About 43% of population is made up from asian minorities. But again only about 4% out of total of 5.3% of total white minorities are European migrants. So allow me to ask you again - what on earth does feeling like "you've travelled to a different country" to do with EU? Unless all of those Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis and Nigerians somehow arrived here with Polish passports, Britain leaving EU will not change this particular part of immigration strategy?

Another "small thing". In the dreams of UKIP members, when Britain "rise from the ashes" and somehow, despite every single elected party so far declining possibility or even smallest idea of leaving EU (don't mistake the initiative of few Tory backbenchers to gain some notoriety with easy point scoring for actual "movement"), let's say actually LEAVE EU, the vision always is that Britain becomes next Switzerland, worse case scenario - Norway. As someone who spent most of his life cast outside of EU, I can tell you life on the outside SUCKS, even if your GDP is through the roof. For a country that doesn't have wealth, immunity and stability of Switzerland, or tiny population and superb natural resources of Norway, the British anti-EU crowd surely has cocky stance. The country doesn't produce almost anything (and if it does it's usually for a foreign parent), doesn't grow almost anything (with perhaps exception of cooking apples and King Edward potatoes), most of you work in "service" industries built around trade and debt, but when push comes to shove, in your visions, the independent, non-EU Britain becomes newly reborn empire, and not Albania or Belarus of the north.

The reality however is, that most of you, Eurosceptics, complaining about laws and mistreatment your country receives from EU, probably don't even know who your MEPs are, what they do day to day and you never bothered to ask why they agreed or voted for (on your own behalf) for all the stuff you now complain about. Last time, the country elected nearly 25% of all 72 MEPs from UKIP, BNP and various other nationalistic movement muppetry. You got your voice heard, good for you, but just think about it - a quarter of your voting power is now a bunch of outcast euroenemies, separatists, xenophobes and nazi nuts no other clan in Euro Parliament will shake hands with, let alone lobby or establish pressure clubs with. And then you wonder why some legislation is being shoved down your throat. Of course it is. It's like you sent Bob Crow to sign your employment deals.

If you don't like what EU provides for you then build lobby groups and start looking at your MEPs hands. Get them to represent you and your voice, control what they do. If you don't like something - let them know. If you want something changed - let them know. If you feel Britain is such a power, then start steering this EU ship, not bend over. And publish every single achievement, every dotation, every deal, so everyone knows of bad and good things that can be done with EU power behind, instead of some random uninformed xenophobic rants of some unemployed yob in the pub passed from mouth to mouth as a gospel.
 
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.As someone who spent most of his life cast outside of EU, I can tell you life on the outside SUCKS, even if your GDP is through the roof

snip

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Agree with everything. Having lived in Canada and the US, I can tell you I wouldn't trade living there instead of Europe for anything, even if I'm stuck in England for now. People really don't know how good they have it here, I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side :rolleyes:
 
The problem with the EU is the countries that are in it which are leechers and don't contribute.

EU should be France, Spain, Italy, Germany, UK. The others, what do they contribute to? Its just easy access for them to come over here and apply for benefits etc. No wonder their GDP went up, money sent from here over there?

This !
 
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