1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Guardian's Owen Jones attacked outside London pub in a premeditated assault.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by stockhausen, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. Tony Edwards


    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,838

    There is a big diference between free speech and hate speech though.

    Free speech should not include hate speech and that is where most of the alt righters go wrong. Its fine to say you dont agree with climate change or disagree with a certain political stance. The trouble comes when what people say is racist or overly denigrating.

    But at the same time.

  2. Nasher


    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 14,653

    Except when someone tracks them down, using all the details about their life they posted online. Then travels 100s of miles to kill them :p
  3. Mason-


    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,339

    Location: Essex

    Yeah one is the idea of having free speech, the other is the idea of not having free speech.
  4. i-bert


    Joined: Feb 18, 2003

    Posts: 3,187

  5. BowdonUK


    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,043

    The problem is who defines what 'hate speech' is?

    We've never had freedom of speech in UK. The only language that should be illegal by law is threats to kill or using any language to target harass a person. We already have those laws before 'hate speech' became a thing.

    By setting in motion the concept of hate speech you've changed the principle to say if the majority of people don't like a certain opinion then they can consider it hate speech and have it outlawed and the person jailed. So whoever comes in to the spotlight in the future might be a real dictator who is prepared to use the entire media for his own use through billions of pounds, then he'll set his own agenda. He might be Hitler x2 and might have millions of followers, and his propaganda might say "We want to elimate others to save ourselves". When you object he will say "Here is Tony wanting to stop us from saving ourselves.. what a hateful thing for him to say.. arrest him for his hate speech!"
  6. dowie


    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,930

    That depends what you mean by hate speech though, it isn't necessarily something that is universally accepted ergo I'm not sure you can claim there is a big difference as that depends on what you're referring to. Some people might consider drawing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed "hate speech" for example or indeed other "offensive" things related to religion.

    It is worth pointing out that protection of free speech isn't really needed for speech that the majority of people are cool with anyway, useful to protect speech/ideas etc.. that might well be controversial and that the majority isn't necessarily cool with or that might offend.
  7. V F


    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 15,891

    Location: UK

    I still don't understand what hate speech is but what I have gathered if you aren't following the mob, it's classed as hate speech and far right. It's like watching infantile people throw hissy fits because they didn't get their way.
  8. Freddie1980


    Joined: Sep 25, 2009

    Posts: 6,935

    Location: Billericay, UK

    Exactly, at the moment the determination of what qualifies as "hate speech" is left to the CPS and the courts. I hate Turnips and wish they would go away and never come back does that make me a monster?

    And just who assaulted Owen Jones again? The day after his alleged attack he appeared on Sky News to give his story completty unfazed and without a mark on him despite being set upon by a group of far right nut jobs who came charging at him with "military precision" (what does that even mean?). If they were Scottish would that have made it a Highland charge?
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  9. VincentHanna


    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,643

  10. ScoTTyBEEE

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 1, 2004

    Posts: 1,964

    Location: London

    It’s easy. If you’re anything but a white straight (non gypsy) male then you’re a protected class, and if anything said towards you by the unprotected class offends your feels then it’s hate speech.

    Protected classes are based upon a points system. For example you insult a woman (1 point) say by holding a door open, then you need to do so as a gay gypsy (2 points). This nullifies any indiscretions.

    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  11. Thecaferacer


    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    Ah hate speech.

    In common parlance it is abusive or threatening language towards a group of people based on race, relation etc etc. However in the UK it is simply hatred expressed towards protected groups.
  12. VincentHanna


    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,643

    Hadn't really been following this, but saw this update on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51150517

  13. Chris Wilson


    Joined: Nov 28, 2003

    Posts: 4,343

    Location: Shropshire

    There are movies of senior members of the British Royal family making Nazi salutes, and he "allegedly" had memorabilia consisting of a flag and some badges. Maybe he has some stress induced mental health issues? (Am I getting the hang of this yet Vincent? ;)) Oops, not forgetting Tory government cuts reducing police numbers and a lack of support structure for radicalized football hooligans.. ;)
  14. FoxEye


    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 21,815

    Location: Cornwall

  15. mmj_uk


    Joined: Dec 26, 2003

    Posts: 23,332

    Owen Jones admits to being a proud socialist and yet anti-fascist, what? they're virtually identical both Hitler and Mussolini were proud socialists before they created their own brand of it (fascism). Both are collectivist systems hostile to the rights of the individual, religion and requiring a big authoritarian/totalitarian government. Business in Nazi Germany although privately owned was ultimately controlled by the Nazi party, there was nothing free market about it. Hitler didn't call the Nazi party socialist for kicks he simply saw himself as a socialist.

    How people have been convinced that Fascism is "far right" I have no idea, there is only one political spectrum that matters on one end is absolute government that wants to control every aspect of peoples lives and on the other absolute anarchy (no government at all), given that todays far left "liberals" want bigger government, strangulating regulation of everything and treat all individuals as collective group identities it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out which end is which in the current paradigm. What makes someone far right? being a nationalist and racist? there is absolutely no reason why a communist/socialist government can't be those things just look at China, they have a similarly privatised economy like Nazi Germany was which is heavily controlled by the communist regime and their Uyghur population is currently being persecuted and thrown into camps simply because of their ethnicity. Are China far right then? how can you even have a political spectrum with virtually identical systems at both extremes, where does anarchy fit in? the middle? lol

  16. plasmahal

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 5, 2006

    Posts: 1,788

    This spot on.

    In order to have Free speech, you have to allow hate speech however offensive and horrible it is.

    It is the only way to know what other people really think.
  17. plasmahal

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 5, 2006

    Posts: 1,788

    Because the left as always will not take ownership of their past mistakes and then blame others.

    It the same as the US Democrats, they institutionalised slavery and racism when the republicans wanted slavery banned. The Democrats even created the KKK.

    And rather than own it, they want to blame the right. The left do this all the time and they try to change history to make them look better.

    It's like when you tell them how bad communism was (millions died in the Soviet Union and china) and how it failed.

    They always say 'But it was the wrong kind of communism, we'll get it right next time'. And Jesus literally wept!!!!!!
  18. [FnG]magnolia


    Joined: Aug 29, 2007

    Posts: 26,165

    Location: Bees.

    What has any of that got to do with Owen Jones? :confused:

    I know you're already frothing about the Democrats in at least two other threads but do try and keep up with the content of this one.
  19. Rofflay


    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,642

    Location: N Ireland

    So true mate Democrats were the hardcore party lol!! And Hitler was a Socialist who wanted only Socialism for his Germans. There is no static left and right anyways it seems people can shockingly be left on one issue and be right on another.

    And i seen Owen in the news also he fully deserves what he got, And instead of taking it like a man he wants to push it as a hate crime because you get more punishment. What a sad little cretin hiding behind the laws his Globalist mates managed to get created so troublemakers like Jones can hide behind hate laws.
  20. dowie


    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,930