The Guardian's Owen Jones attacked outside London pub in a premeditated assault.

[Angilion]

And I bet you think the Democratic people's Republic of Korea is an actual democracy, right? I mean it's right there in the name so that must be true

An important difference being that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea has no democratic policies and the National Socialists had a lot of socialist policies.

 

[VincentHanna]

I know you are obsessed with fighting identity politics, but you aren't stupid @Angilion

You know the Nazis were not left wing socialists. It's just a stupid point to even try and argue.

 

[Rofflay]

I know you are obsessed with fighting identity politics, but you aren't stupid @Angilion

You know the Nazis were not left wing socialists. It's just a stupid point to even try and argue.

Nazi Germany remained capitalist. But it had also undertaken state intervention in the economy unprecedented in capitalist societies. The Nazis also supported an extensive welfare state (of course, for ‘ethnically pure’ Germans). It included free higher education, family and child support, pensions, health insurance and an array of publically supported entertainment and vacation options. All spheres of life, economy included, had to be subordinated to the ‘national interest’ (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz), and the fascist commitment to foster social equality.

Sounds pretty Socialist in 1939.

 

[dowie]

Which he allegedly didn't know were linked to white supremacist groups and which he allegedly had nothing to do with for 20 years. That was also in the BBC article linked to in that post.
[...]
I think it's plausible that a thug who was into semi-organised violence could be ignorant of any other meaning a symbol connected with that violence might have. Particularly in 1998, when the internet did exist but wasn't omnipresent like it is now.

Not particularly, it seems rather unlikely... someone with pin badges re: white supremacist groups doesn't realise what some SS symbols are... if you think that is "plausible" then his defence lawyers have done a good job gaslighting you with that weak defence. It seems much more plausible that he's a white supremacist/nazi fan.

 

[dowie]

You know the Nazis were not left wing socialists. It's just a stupid point to even try and argue.

They were partly, albeit national socialist rather than international socialist - though the most socialist part got purged during the night of the long knives.

This argument is rather silly tbh:

And I bet you think the Democratic people's Republic of Korea is an actual democracy, right? I mean it's right there in the name so that must be true

It was more than just part of the name. Not to mention that various modern day Neo-Nazi groups (such as the person in this case might well have been a fan of), seem to embrace Strasserism.

 

[Sankari]

They were partly, albeit national socialist rather than international socialist - though the most socialist part got purged during the night of the long knives.

They were nationalists and capitalists.

 

[Angilion]

Not particularly, it seems rather unlikely... someone with pin badges re: white supremacist groups doesn't realise what some SS symbols are... if you think that is "plausible" then his defence lawyers have done a good job gaslighting you with that weak defence. It seems much more plausible that he's a white supremacist/nazi fan.

Someone extremely ignorant and wrapped up in semi-organised football-related violence who has some symbols they associated (with good reason) with that violence. I think it's possible that they were ignorant and self-centred enough to be ignorant of other uses of the symbols.

I know you are obsessed with fighting identity politics, but you aren't stupid @Angilion

You know the Nazis were not left wing socialists. It's just a stupid point to even try and argue.

Except that, of course, it isn't. Reality is not as simple as it's often made out to be, especially this ludicrous binary politics idea based on seating arrangements a couple of centuries ago in a single parliament.

Facism was explicitly and clearly designed and stated to be neither left nor right. As a result, facists could and did have some policies other people associated with the right and some policies that other people associated with the left. The Nazis also had a large number of socialist policies, particularly for the 1930s. In the early days, the Nazis openly recruited from outright communists since there was enough crossover to do so. The biggest difference between the two ideologies was nationalism, although that found its way into communism as well. The biggest common ground between the two was authoritarianism and state control over things is a key part of authoritarianism. The combination of nationalism and authoritarianism that was so much a part of Nazism wouldn't allow very much in the way of capitalism because that would go against both nationalism and authoritarianism. A wealthy transnational company can subvert or even directly challenge national governments to some extent. They allowed some capitalism, but only as long as they controlled it. They also had large social welfare (using their ideas of "welfare", obviously) policies and more overt state control of key industries.

 

[TJM]

I love GD. Having had to abandon the conspiracy theories about Jones making it all up, the argument now is that the person who attacked him without provocation and keeps Nazi memorabilia at home isn’t really a right-wing thug but a misunderstood hoarder.

 

[Malevolence]

It's from a movie

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperium_(2016_film)

No, really? And here was me thinking that Daniel Radcliffe had publicly come out as a White Supremacist and the gutter press hadn't picked up on it at all. How silly of me!

 

[Deleted member 68110]

I love GD. Having had to abandon the conspiracy theories about Jones making it all up, the argument now is that the person who attacked him without provocation and keeps Nazi memorabilia at home isn’t really a right-wing thug but a misunderstood hoarder.

Quite The sympathy, tolerance and understanding afforded to convicted racist bigots is so overwhelming and disproportionate to anything else.

 

[joey1211]

I love GD. Having had to abandon the conspiracy theories about Jones making it all up, the argument now is that the person who attacked him without provocation and keeps Nazi memorabilia at home isn’t really a right-wing thug but a misunderstood hoarder.

I feel his pain. I've got drawers of the stuff at home. My granny left it to me in her will. I don't have the heart to throw it all out.

 

[Efour]

I feel his pain. I've got drawers of the stuff at home. My granny left it to me in her will. I don't have the heart to throw it all out.

I'll take it! Or better still donate it to a museum. It's truly a fascinating and bizarre time in history. Got any KdF advertising that's disturbing.
I think I went to Butlins too many times as a kid.

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
You know the Nazis were not left wing socialists. It's just a stupid point to even try and argue.

I believe that the Nazis murdered a number of Communists during the Holocaust

 

[Tony Edwards]

I feel his pain. I've got drawers of the stuff at home. My granny left it to me in her will. I don't have the heart to throw it all out.

Funnily enough my grandfather had some aswell, but not because he was a racist but because he was a thieving git, or as some would call it a collector of others possessions during the war.

Straight in the bin from me though.

 

[joey1211]

I feel his pain. I've got drawers of the stuff at home. My granny left it to me in her will. I don't have the heart to throw it all out.

My tounge was firmly in my cheek when I posted this.

 

[Tony Edwards]

My tounge was firmly in my cheek when I posted this.

Hey I wasnt implying your granny was a racist.

 

[B&W]

I love GD. Having had to abandon the conspiracy theories about Jones making it all up, the argument now is that the person who attacked him without provocation and keeps Nazi memorabilia at home isn’t really a right-wing thug but a misunderstood hoarder.

Hahaha. Lmao at some of the comments "it's plausible he is so ignorant that he didn't know it's meaning".

Well perhaps some people are so tolerant of the intolerant racists isn't it plausible that they are intolerant racists themselves. Seems more likely then the initial comments..

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Shock horror that posters with right wing beliefs first say OJ made it all up, then defend the person convicted of attacking him because "he had it coming", excuse him owning Nazi paraphernalia and that it and him performing a nazi salute doesn't mean he's right wing and finally try and sell the narrative presented by the right that the Nazis weren't right wing. Because those Neo Nazis/white supremacists groups are actually left wing communists pretending to be right wing to hurt the right

 

[Efour]

I think it's great. At least now you have a benchmark set for for a Nazi.
Not just somone that doesn't agree with whatever buzzwords of the day are being debated, or puts the milk in the cup before the tea.

Nazi should mean something, not be blanketed on all morons.

 

[dowie]

Someone extremely ignorant and wrapped up in semi-organised football-related violence who has some symbols they associated (with good reason) with that violence. I think it's possible that they were ignorant and self-centred enough to be ignorant of other uses of the symbols.

Well that is a different argument, I don't disagree that it is possible I disagreed with your previous statement that it was plausible.

The most plausible explanation here is that he was a far right **** bag, he had far right symbols because of this and he knew exactly what they were and that this attack on Jones was because Jones is an (admittedly annoying) leftie and the attacker is a far right thug.

The defence argument that he didn't even know what these symbols were, didn't know what the badges were and only attacked Jones by chance over some spilt beer is just some weak BS they tried on, it isn't plausible.

They were nationalists and capitalists.

They were capitalist in so far as they allowed for private industry (albeit with plenty of state control), they weren't too keen on free markets/liberal economics, weren't very keen on people generating wealth through speculation, weren't too keen on bankers (and all the Jewish associations they tagged onto that).

They also had a socialist element as already pointed out, granted the significant part of that was purged in the event already mentioned but still influences modern day neo nazi groups today, to ignore this, deny it or deflect from it by throwing in some mention of capitalism is silly.