The Jenson Button to McLaren Thread

Well that makes little sense, his fitness has to be right up there or he can't be as effective a driver..

Fitness for a driver is different to that of a triathlete. This is why you can have people like Massa or Barrichello (who aren't known for their fitness) go toe-to-toe with fitter drivers like Button or Hamilton and beat them.

F1 places major stresses on your bones and tissue, due to the G-Forces. No amount of running, cycling or swimming can prepare you for this. Driving requires good high upper body strength, especially in the neck area. This is why you often see that drivers tend to have thicker necks than "normal" people. You also needs lots of stamina (something which can be developed by running, swimming, etc).

I must emphasize though, that just because you can beat everybody in a triathlon, does not mean you will be able to beat everybody in an F1 race.

If you go over to Indycar racing, you will often see some pretty old guys racing and competing at the front. These guys are not triathlon fit.

I think the commentators on F1 have brainwashed people into thinking that unless you are super duper fit, you can't drive an F1 car, fast. This is certainly not the case and you may make better improvements to your overall lap times by spending time in the simulator, rather than running triathlons.
 
I think the commentators on F1 have brainwashed people into thinking that unless you are super duper fit, you can't drive an F1 car, fast. This is certainly not the case and you may make better improvements to your overall lap times by spending time in the simulator, rather than running triathlons.

No one has EVER stated its either one or the other - I dont know why you are even suggesting it.

All anyone has ever suggested is that instead of doing seperate events (private or in competition) when you are meant to be fitness training, there is no reason at all NOT to do a triathlon (which in the past you have been against for some reason).

Of course all drivers have to spend time in the simulator (and no one on here is likely to know how much time for example Button spent in a simulator last season) so to try and imply that Barrichello spent more time in the sim is complete bs.

Barrichello only beat Button SIGNIFICANTLY in one race, Valencia, and when I say that I mean during the race / time difference between the cars at the flag, which over the season is pretty astounding in such a good car with two very experienced drivers
 
Of course all drivers have to spend time in the simulator (and no one on here is likely to know how much time for example Button spent in a simulator last season) so to try and imply that Barrichello spent more time in the sim is complete bs.

Damn. You love to argue don't you.

I've never suggested that Barrichello spent more time in the simulator. What I did say is that he hasn't been competing in triathlons and isnt as fit as Button.

Barrichello only beat Button SIGNIFICANTLY in one race, Valencia, and when I say that I mean during the race / time difference between the cars at the flag, which over the season is pretty astounding in such a good car with two very experienced drivers

Barrichello outperformed Button in the 2nd half of the season. The only reason why he didn't outscore Button more heavily is because in 1 race, he had a puncture and in another race he had a botched fuel stop. In both these races, Button finished ahead of Barrichello, even though Barrichello outperformed Button in out right speed in qualifying and during the race.

We must also look at last year where Barrichello outscored Button across the entire season. This was the season where Button rated his own fitness very highly.

Both scenarios above show that fitness which is great for triathlons doesnt translate to top race results on the track.

Hamilton and Alonso, for example are not as (cardiovascularly) fit as Button, yet I know who I would bet on, in terms of scoring more points during an entire season.

Don't get me wrong, fitness is important. Upper body strength and good stamina is important. But, race craft is much more important, for an F1 driver.
 
Damn. You love to argue don't you..

No - you just seem to come up with loads of carp time and time again

I've never suggested that Barrichello spent more time in the simulator.

That was exactly your implication in the initial quote, that Button wasnt spending enough time in the simulator,

Barrichello outperformed Button in the 2nd half of the season..

No he didnt - he only did better in qualifying. Every RACE day (which is what I said above) Button was faster than Barrichello , apart from Valencia, and if Barrichello wasnt so touchy, Im sure the points would have been much more in JB's favour too

The only reason why he didn't outscore Button more heavily is because in 1 race, he had a puncture and in another race he had a botched fuel stop. In both these races, Button finished ahead of Barrichello, even though Barrichello outperformed Button in out right speed in qualifying and during the race.

the race where Rubens started on pole and went steadily backwards you mean, on a better strategy, and would have only ended up a place or two( at best) ahead of Button who was on a much more difficult strategy having to fight with traffic witha bigger fuel load etc if it wasnt for the puncture

There is no way Barrichello was pacier than Button in Brazil, you are completely warped if you think that (Button was only marginally slower than the race winner and Vettel, yet Barrichello was dropping further and further back even before the puncture)l

Botched fuel stop made no difference (actually JB's fuel stops both took as long as RB's if not longer- JB was just a lot faster in the crucial stage as proven by Autosport and Ross Brawn)

We must also look at last year where Barrichello outscored Button across the entire season. This was the season where Button rated his own fitness very highly.

Last year has absolutely nothing to do with it (only you think we MUST look at it) - but as you have introduced it, Barrichello also only made the majority of those extra points in one race (Silverstone), without those points it would have been one or two different over the season - I cant see how that proves anything at all (either way)

Both scenarios above show that fitness which is great for triathlons doesnt translate to top race results on the track..

Completely unrelated - and it proves nothing at all

Last year's car didnt suit Button at all, no biggie, it was blatantly an awful car which Rubens could manhandle better - so ***** what?

All I have ever said (and the teams in question so far Honda and Brawn seem to agree) is that triathlons are not bad to keep fitness levels at the right level for F1 drivers. Yes other types of fitness can obviously be totally wrong, and conversely other types of fitness that F1 drivers do complete may well be just as effective, but that doesnt mean triathlons are by any means bad, which is what you have implied in the past and you seem to continue to imply

Hamilton and Alonso, for example are not as (cardiovascularly) fit as Button, yet I know who I would bet on, in terms of scoring more points during an entire season.

Don't get me wrong, fitness is important. Upper body strength and good stamina is important. But, race craft is much more important, for an F1 driver.

Well thats completely unprovable - and also unrelated, just because one is true doesnt mean the other is also

So many different things go on in an F1 race (or even quali as thats an important part), that have nothing to do with fitness what so ever.

Any driver that has the car designed soley for him for the whole season (or several seasons) is always going to gain more points , thats not really saying anything mindblowing - all three drivers you mentioned have completely different styles of car they prefer.

The only way that could be proven is IF one team could design a car around two polar opposite styles of driving, which is nigh on impossible (and even then there is the possibility that intrinsic to the design one style is preferred anyway)

This is also getting completely off the point - once a driver is at a level of the required type of fitness, that peak has to be kept up. It seems so far that teams who know a lot more about the subject than most on here agree that triathlons are suitable to keep JB at that peak, and that person also managed to win a good amount of races while he was at that level of fitness (as it isnt done over a few weeks, its built up over months before the event)
 
its FrankJH!
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:p
 
I think Jenson left because there was no long-term future at the team, Mercedes want Vettel and I'm sure sooner or later they are going to get him, at which point it would be adios Jenson.

It's either folly or bravery moving to McLaren, we'll find out next year 'for sure'.
 
I thought sunama had been thoroughly discredited when it came to any comment concerning Jenson Button? ...at least that the opinion I formed quite a while ago.
 
I think Jenson left because there was no long-term future at the team, Mercedes want Vettel and I'm sure sooner or later they are going to get him, at which point it would be adios Jenson.

It's either folly or bravery moving to McLaren, we'll find out next year 'for sure'.
The most intelligent post in this thread sir :tiphat:
 
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