The joy of being a landlord

[Devilman]

Are you saying that a private landlord shouldn't be entitled to make any money at all? If not, what's reasonable?

If you are saying there should be no profit you're not going to solve the housing problem. Even if there was a mass sale of properties and prices collapsed people are not all of a sudden going to have £10-50K for a deposit but they still have to live somewhere? Councils don't have the money to fund building programmes so what's your realistic solution?

Did I start doing it to make money, absolutely. I'm not ashamed of that and make no apologies for it. Am I fed up of the hassle and lack of any meaningful return? Again, absolutely. If I could sell I would and I can guarantee that that tenant would be significantly worse off. My rent is lower than the local market, hasn't increased for years and she would face an increase with still no realistic means of buying that house.


Okay, take it further, bathroom was about £3500, flooring about £2000 so that's another £5500, say £92 a month. Assuming all those costs come equally, which they don't, I've been left with a profit of about £100 a month without any of the other costs which have had to be met over the years (legal/survey/washing machines (repairs and replacement) /tumble dryer. etc) I could make roughly the same, or more, with the money in the bank or other investments. Maybe I should be asking for subsidies, you know, just like the farmers?

I'm sick and tired of PL's all being tarred with the same brush. Yes, there do seem to be many who are unscrupulous but there are just as many providing a valuable service for people who either can't purchase, or don't want to.

Firstly, as I said before, and will say again, No, I am not saying they should not make any money at all.. Stop fabricating things I have not said.

I have very clearly said there needs to be closer regulation on the profit(s) being made on rentals.

See, NOW you're getting it.. all expenses paid, costs covered, future costs saved / invested for and you still make a bit of profit... NOW you're providing a service to the people, which is something PL's love to claim they're doing when renting out properties.

Many PL's say they would love to just have a reliable long-term tenant, well that's the kind of thing you get when you provide a service,.

I have also been very clear in my discussion with @Bluecube just a few posts ago that I am NOT tarring all PL's with the same brush, I even went as far as to specifically say that I 100% recognize the "Portfolio Types" to be the ones causing the real damage.

However... if I could do a "side hustle" and cover all my expenses and make £100 profit a month, i'd consider that a win. I certainly wouldn't be complaining or acting like it's nothing cus it couldn't buy me another yacht

 

[Devilman]

You're delusional if you think that house prices will drop due to landlords selling up. You've completely missed the fact that there aren't enough houses in the UK whether for rental or to purchase. That's why the price of housing both to rent and purchase has increased.

So once again, what is the point you're trying to make? Are you really trying to say that the Government is the problem by refusing to deal with the housing crisis, a crisis that has been in the making for over 20 years yet nothing has been done?

House prices will only drop if legislation and preventions are put in place to stop the "Portfolio Types" from buying them all up and turning them into rentals, I thought that was so obvious it didn't need to be said... Apparently it did.

The point I am trying to make is that in the UK, in the current "climate"...

I fail to see how the Housing Shortage in this country is solved by having yet more houses in the ownership of yet fewer people.? It seems like just another method of "reallocating" wealth upwards.

 

[dowie]

For every well intentioned LL or 2nd-home owner , there is unfortunately many more who are not holding into property/properties for family reasons and a desire to hand-down.

For many they have inherritted a property (usually from parental bereavement) and when faced with the reality of the housing / rental market they then choose to make it a rental property.

Not for family
Not for handing down
Not for giving a head-start

For Income.

This is bizarre tbh.. why is it more righteous if you're renting out a property to give your offspring a head start vs renting out a property to say help fund your retirement?

Who cares what the landlord wants to do with the rent money or the asset they have... they could spend it on a round-the-world cruise if they like, this just isn't particularly principled, it's inane ranting/jealousy.

 

[adidan]

Reservations for new builds are down and tenant demand is up.

I can't see us leaving the landlord sector doing anything to alleviate the situation. A greater tenant demand against a reducing stock isn't going to push rents down.

But I am, so I wish renters well. Well, those who aren't like my last tenant.

 

[dod]

Firstly, as I said before, and will say again, No, I am not saying they should not make any money at all.. Stop fabricating things I have not said.

You certainly imply it

I also agree, people do need to rent at some point in their lives... That is what the state should be for.. Council houses as they used to be called, before the term got hijacked to mean "benefit claimant"

I see no justifiable reason why private individuals need to own more than 1 residential property, or rent them out to make profit.

While I recognize that those in power (and I mean metaphorically, not specifically "The Tories") are barely competent to actually spend the proceeds accordingly, in an "ideal world" rentals would be from local councils, with all revenue going back to local council. Instead of Housing benefit being paid into the pockets of private landlords because they sold off most of the capacity with Right To Buy and cannot build enough to replace them.

This is the problem with the current system.. people are profiteering from benefits for those least able / physically and/or mentally disabled, or simply trying to support a family on minimum wage. - Then often those very same people are complaining about "those spongers on benefits"

I'm not sure if you over-estimate the number of people willing to become parasites on others, or under-estimate the number of people who just want a chance to own their own home from a living wage.

Every time a property becomes a "Second Property" it's taken away from potential home owners.

Every time a property becomes part of a "Portfolio" it's taken away from potential home owners.

It makes no difference whether you own it outright or have it sat on a 90% mortgage.

It does not matter how the property was acquired, whether it's "only" your second property, or the 50th your adding to your portfolio.

There is simply no need to own more than 1 residence.

It is a deliberate choice that people make and it almost always leads to them enriching themselves at the expense of those less fortunate.

 

[dod]

And that's me done with this thread. Wasn't all roses.

 

[dowie]

House prices will only drop if legislation and preventions are put in place to stop the "Portfolio Types" from buying them all up and turning them into rentals, I thought that was so obvious it didn't need to be said... Apparently it did.

This is just nonsense though, it's not obvious and it's totally wrong they're not buying them all up, far from it and issue is simply the supply of homes in general, landlords are already selling more homes than they're buying right now but the main impact of that is that renting has become way more expensive for people.

Squeezing renters isn't exactly helping them now is it! Yet that's what you seem to want to do here whether you realise that or not. Also the "portfolio types" are what people deal with on the continent, if your landlord is some company or some investor with a bunch of properties then you're probably dealing with a professional managing agency, they're just going to go through a box ticking exercise for the most part, just pay your rent and deal with their maintenance contractors if any issues arise.

It's the individual hobby landlords with like one property who are highly variable and can be anything from say some nice person who doesn't need much of a return and doesn't put the rent up or can be the landlord from hell who doesn't have a clue about the law and thinks they can enter the flat whenever they feel like it, fobs you off when trying to arrange some repairs as he's still looking into it etc.

 

[Devilman]

Reservations for new builds are down and tenant demand is up.

I can't see us leaving the landlord sector doing anything to alleviate the situation. A greater tenant demand against a reducing stock isn't going to push rents down.

But I am, so I wish renters well. Well, those who aren't like my last tenant.

I think a great deal of that comes from the whole "tightening of the belt" needed in last few years since energy prices and Ukraine, I suspect a lot more people are seeing the rate rises etc.. and deciding it's better to continue renting for now than take the leap onto the property ladder.

Sadly this is not one of those things that can be fixed quickly and easily (at least not without MASSIVE investment and legislation changes akin to 1950's building / rebuilding).

And in the current "climate" (combination of house shortages, demand, current regulations, rate of new builds etc..) it would need an enormous influx of properties to have any real significant change on the market and that's only if the government (whomever it may be at the time) did nothing to try and prop it up still, which let's face it, they all have form for that.

I will admit (and perhaps it has not always been clear) many of my responses / replies to several people in this thread should have undoubtedly been prefaced by "In an ideal situation".

I fully recognize that with the way things are right now... even if every PL in the land sold up tomorrow, it would not really make much of an impact overall.

I'm just not sure that the (perhaps only perceived by me) argument of "well it's all **** anyway / already and if I sell up it wont change anything really" has weight, nothing improves if you make no attempt to improve it?

I think for a lot of the public (both those who do and don't own a home) they see PL's in a similar light to those using "Tax Breaks" and "Offshore Accounts" and "Non-Dom Status" - Something that is out of reach to the majority, but for the fortunate / hard working / favored few and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.


*Edit* (Sorry to hear you had a crappy tenant, I have seen it several times and I honestly do not understand what motivates those kinds of people, I've rented before and I would never dream of intentionally damaging the property or anything associated with it )

 

[dowie]

I fully recognize that with the way things are right now... even if every PL in the land sold up tomorrow, it would not really make much of an impact overall.

This is one huge blind spot people seem to have... some people actually want to rent from private landlords. University students, for example, often only have uni accommodation for their 1st year.

People who move to a different city for work, people who want to share with friends rather than live with their parents etc..

This fantasy some on here seem to have about getting rid of private landlords is absurd as they're still needed.

 

[adidan]

I think for a lot of the public (both those who do and don't own a home) they see PL's in a similar light to those using "Tax Breaks" and "Offshore Accounts" and "Non-Dom Status" - Something that is out of reach to the majority, but for the fortunate / hard working / favored few and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.


*Edit* (Sorry to hear you had a crappy tenant, I have seen it several times and I honestly do not understand what motivates those kinds of people, I've rented before and I would never dream of intentionally damaging the property or anything associated with it )

I mean it's nothing like non-dom, tax breaks or the like. At all. I'll have a chuckle about that when I pay my capital gains. A hysterical chuckle. Hard work got me that house, nothing more.

The system itself doesn't help anybody at the moment. Look at the continent and in some countries many prefer to rent because anything that needs sorting isn't their problem, but then they have better systems, more protection for tenants and landlords.

Like you say, I also don't understand tenants who want to live rent free and leave the place in a state, I never did as a renter. Then again I don't understand landlords who are happy to have tenants live in cramped squalor and do the bare minimum.

 

[Quartz]

However... if I could do a "side hustle" and cover all my expenses and make £100 profit a month,

But he isn't making a profit of £100 a month. There may be a surplus of £100 a month but there's still the odd £4000 energy conversion to fund and that's over 3 years of that surplus gone.

 

[Bluecube]

House prices will only drop if legislation and preventions are put in place to stop the "Portfolio Types" from buying them all up and turning them into rentals, I thought that was so obvious it didn't need to be said... Apparently it did.

Obvious only if you believe that sort of nonsense. You're arguing from a position of complete ignorance. House prices will NOT drop by stopping landlords buying them and using them as rentals. House prices will only drop once there is an excess supply, something that will not happen any time soon apart from unique situations such as in Aberdeen (a perfect example of excess supply in fact). Until you educate yourself with some basic economics, you will continue to fail to understand why your arguments are garbage.

 

[X]

Obvious only if you believe that sort of nonsense. You're arguing from a position of complete ignorance. House prices will NOT drop by stopping landlords buying them and using them as rentals. House prices will only drop once there is an excess supply, something that will not happen any time soon apart from unique situations such as in Aberdeen (a perfect example of excess supply in fact). Until you educate yourself with some basic economics, you will continue to fail to understand why your arguments are garbage.

For someone claiming that someone else needs to understand basic economics, you really seem to be struggling with the concept of supply & demand.

 

[Bluecube]

No. I’m fine thanks

 

[X]

No. I’m fine thanks

Well that was disappointing, I was expecting to see a well reasoned and thought out argument about how supply and demand doesn't apply to housing, but this is all I get?

You give up far too easily.

 

[bris]

Maggie Thatcher, she literally sold the houses from under the councils, she didn't just sell them she practically gave them away.

She is one of the main reasons for the housing crisis and certainly one of the reasons for so many private LL's

All my properties are ex council, most of the private landlords properties are ex council.

There are many cases of people buying their council house for a huge discount, selling them for a massive profit and then getting rehoused by none other than the council they bought from.

The Tories are to blame, she sold our utilities our trains and our houses.

 

[ColdAsIce]

This is one huge blind spot people seem to have... some people actually want to rent from private landlords. University students, for example, often only have uni accommodation for their 1st year.

People who move to a different city for work, people who want to share with friends rather than live with their parents etc..

This fantasy some on here seem to have about getting rid of private landlords is absurd as they're still needed.

Nice one dowie. Move the goal posts by posting about a minor issue that some private land lords would accommodate when there is a massive majority being paid the national average wage but stand no chance of owning their own property without the help of mum/dad or inheritance.

 

[mattx4]

This is one huge blind spot people seem to have... some people actually want to rent from private landlords. University students, for example, often only have uni accommodation for their 1st year.

People who move to a different city for work, people who want to share with friends rather than live with their parents etc..

This fantasy some on here seem to have about getting rid of private landlords is absurd as they're still needed.

I'm a landlord and also rent. I'm enslaved but also a parasite to society

 

[EdGey]

You must be spectacularly stupid if you think buying a loaf of bread for a quid is the same as buying a home.

Sorry allow me to explain. You brought up evil landlords profiting from your basic human needs. I compared it to your other basic human needs (which you seem to have no problem with people profiting from). Does that help you understand or should I break it down further?

Most people will probably spend more on food over the course of their lives than they will on a house. Not you though - how's the alotment coming?

 

[X]

Sorry allow me to explain. You brought up evil landlords profiting from your basic human needs. I compared it to your other basic human needs (which you seem to have no problem with people profiting from). Does that help you understand or should I break it down further?

Most people will probably spend more on food over the course of their lives than they will on a house. Not you though - how's the alotment coming?

Again, I'm not sure how you're comparing the two. They're both human needs, both have people profiting from them.

The difference is that anyone can pick up a loaf of bread, not everyone can afford a home.

Which part of this are you struggling to understand? I'm sure I've got some crayons here somewhere if you'd like me to draw you a picture?