The joy of being a landlord

[NVP]

Yes growing weed is genuine advice

You asked for advice, which I gave you. Your reply showed you can't be bothered, even asking straight for the easy answer instead of considering putting your brain to work. A gif is all that really deserved, but I gave you your easy answer also.

Psh! making me do an Angilion


e: no reply hey? I hope you see how poor your response was to my helpful reply to your genuine request for help. If you don't then you'll forever be stuck at the bottom of the barrel moaning how it's other people's fault they have nicer things.

Just a recap of how bad it actually was:

Me:Helpful advice

If you really want something that's out of your reach, then either you sacrifice to save for the life you want, or change your dream to fit your situation. Else, it appears, resign yourself to a life of moaning about others...

You:Life story and request for help

I'll even use myself as an example for fun So i moved from the poorest part of my crappy hometown which has no jobs and a poor economy for further education and then stuck around in Nottingham. Job prospects and economy are better here than my hometown and i have no family ties here as im already a fair distance from what little living family i have. I've been moving my way through the pay bands at work, increasing my income. (obviously im not trying hard enough) I have next to no luxary spend, budget everything and go without if its more of a want than a need. I'm saving money in a LISA for a deposit, which keeps increasing as property prices go up and the value of my income is eroded away by inflation. My rent is more than a mortgage in my area even with the current crazy interest rates so mortgage payments arent a problem its purely saving for the ever increasing deposit.

I expect that given the above, i should try harder at work, quit my job move 2-3 times further away from family and abandon all friends, go get a lesser paid job up north and then continue to try and buy a house up north?

I would genuinely like your honest and truthful thoughts on what I should do. Im open to any ideas that can better my situation even if it comes from the likes of you.

Me:Advice

If you aren't already, then move into a shared house for the cheap rent, plenty in Nottingham for a good price as it's a uni city. Cut out any luxuries that don't benefit your mental health. Save like a stingy ****** until you've got that deposit. Use some of your savings to invest in side projects if you really want to hustle.

You:Gave up and want everything handed to you

House sharing here isnt much different cost wise than renting if it isnt a student share and for my own personal well being and mental health House sharing isnt really an option. I literally have no luxuries so cant cut what i dont have. I'm saving as much as possible and utilizing the 25% bonus on the Lisa. What side projects should i invest in (spending the money ive saved) to "maybe" make money.

Me: lazy gif for lazy person

 

[volt9291]

Irrelevant. Also, I couldn't care less.

That's like the bank robber saying, "If you want me to stop being a bank robber, show me how I could make the same money legally? Otherwise I'll keep doing what I want!"

There already exists many ways for people to generate an income without depriving others of the chance to own a home.

@FoxEye I'm not bothered if you care!
I wouldn't say it's irrelevant, I asked it in response to what @Devilman posted.

Also nothing like a bank robber saying that. Being a landlord and having a house as an investment that creates a monthly income is perfectly legal. So why should a LL change their investment? Because you don't like it?

If a LL has invested £260,000 (3-bed semi) and is getting a guaranteed income (rent) of £1,000 a month, why should they care to do any different if it works as a sound investment?

If you don't like the idea of the investment, the question still stands.
If there isn't another way to guarantee that monthly return on £260,000 LL's won't change their investment.

 

[volt9291]

Overnight rate with the federal reserve currently, via money market funds. If you want guaranteed

Don't know how that works/how you'd go about that but if that is genuine, I'm guessing it is not quite as simple as putting £260,000 in and having everything fully managed (like a letting agent does for a LL) and returning you £1,000 a month.

To me, letting a house seems quite a good investment. That's why I asked.

 

[OspreyO]

@FoxEye I'm not bothered if you care!
I wouldn't say it's irrelevant, I asked it in response to what @Devilman posted.

Also nothing like a bank robber saying that. Being a landlord and having a house as an investment that creates a monthly income is perfectly legal. So why should a LL change their investment? Because you don't like it?

If a LL has invested £260,000 (3-bed semi) and is getting a guaranteed income (rent) of £1,000 a month, why should they care to do any different if it works as a sound investment?

If you don't like the idea of the investment, the question still stands.
If there isn't another way to guarantee that monthly return on £260,000 LL's won't change their investment.

The issue isn't about Landlords. It's about not being afford to buy new in an expensive area.

 

[platinum87]

Don't know how that works/how you'd go about that but if that is genuine, I'm guessing it is not quite as simple as putting £260,000 in and having everything fully managed (like a letting agent does for a LL) and returning you £1,000 a month.

To me, letting a house seems quite a good investment. That's why I asked.

I said it because the overnight rate just so happens to be 4.7% where it works out near exactly.

Alternatively 1 year fixed rate interest is offered at 4.6% currently. (from moneysavingsexpert site)

So thats how.

Please show me which house costs £260k where i can have a yield of £1000 net.

 

[Sythe79]

I said it because the overnight rate just so happens to be 4.7% where it works out near exactly.

Alternatively 1 year fixed rate interest is offered at 4.6% currently. (from moneysavingsexpert site)

So thats how.

Please show me which house costs £260k where i can have a yield of £1000 net.

Pretty easy, we had one HMO style conversion slip through before they tightened the rules in the area on our road, and even with the conversion costs it was probably quite a bit less than that. The rental rate when it first went on the market 3–4 years ago was £2300 take off the bills and expenses I'm sure you would clear a grand a month.

 

[ci_newman]

Pretty easy, we had one HMO style conversion slip through before they tightened the rules in the area on our road, and even with the conversion costs it was probably quite a bit less than that. The rental rate when it first went on the market 3–4 years ago was £2300 take off the bills and expenses I'm sure you would clear a grand a month.

Your arguments work better when you present it as facts, not anecdotes.

But let's take the £2300 example, the first £920 of that would be gone in tax before you even start. Agency fees would take another 10%. So the yield at best is £1150/month before you consider other costs such as insurance, annual safety inspections, repair and maintenance etc.

For the example, I've assumed no mortgage costs too.

 

[DavidTJ]

I would agree the big thing with landlord as a financial investment if we ignore the ethics side.

There are a lot of people with little financial knowledge who go into because people say it's a good idea.

The full facts are never presented. The average perception of stocks is they can go up and they can go down. The historic returns of trackers are incredibly good, but you advise to move towards cash in retirement because crashes at the wrong time have terrible consequences.

The average perception of housing seems to be that it will always rise, so if the yield is poor oh well the house can be sold at a profit.. People use the dramatic rise from the 90s to now as that's what's going to happen forever. The crash of 2008 doesn't seem to have changed anyone's outlook. Now you could argue that's perfectly fair assumption we are not building enough houses and flats for our population growth. On the other hand look at the impact of Grenfell on flats. Look at the impact of COVID on people's desire to live in small city houses and flats.

We need fair and accurate comparisons so that bad landlords (either by deliberate intent or people in over their heads out) are stopped.

I paid 260,000 and get £12000 a year (that's actually well below other returns) is too simplistic How much work do you have to put in. Even going with an agent to do everything for you it's still as much or more work than investing in something like the FTSE 100 or the worldwide fund.

What are taxes, how often will you need to make repairs or replacements, are you budgeting for a new roof or will that go on the credit card.

What about time between tennant's is that factored in, tennant's who can't pay etc.

What about new government regulations. Such as energy efficiency.

Agency fees or the hours you put in instead. For instance while you were sorting out a plumber and dealing with late payments you could have been working at Sainsbury's instead so it should be factored in.

Obviously the big advantage is you will always own the land even if the house falls down, you don't have to have 260,000 you can share the risk with the bank.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Obviously the big advantage is you will always own the land even if the house falls down, you don't have to have 260,000 you can share the risk with the bank.

just to possibly be a little pedantic..
the leasehold on our flat means we don't own the land afaik. in practicality I don't know what happens with leases....... do the HAVE to be renewed if the flat owner wants them or is a leasehold a very long term rent that the leaseholder can decide to not renew?

 

[ColdAsIce]

Thread has become pointless once the el oh el just move north and works harder types started trolling the thread. I guess postal workers, nurses, refuse workers, junior doctors, retail workers, service industry workers the list goes on. None of these jobs should be done. Everyone should abandon the south of England and get into finance I guess?

 

[OspreyO]

Thread has become pointless once the el oh el just move north and works harder types started trolling the thread. I guess postal workers, nurses, refuse workers, junior doctors, retail workers, service industry workers the list goes on. None of these jobs should be done. Everyone should abandon the south of England and get into finance I guess?

The thread was started by someone traveling 500 miles to a property.

Mention making a bit of an effort and thinking out of the box to some people in this thread and they throw their avocado toast out of their pram.

 

[volt9291]

I said it because the overnight rate just so happens to be 4.7% where it works out near exactly.

Alternatively 1 year fixed rate interest is offered at 4.6% currently. (from moneysavingsexpert site)

So thats how.

Please show me which house costs £260k where i can have a yield of £1000 net.

I was saying £1,000 Gross. I fully understand that will get taxed at 40%

Plenty of houses around my way for £250 -£270,000 that would return £950-£1,200 a month (Gross).

I would agree the big thing with landlord as a financial investment if we ignore the ethics side.

There are a lot of people with little financial knowledge who go into because people say it's a good idea.

The full facts are never presented. The average perception of stocks is they can go up and they can go down. The historic returns of trackers are incredibly good, but you advise to move towards cash in retirement because crashes at the wrong time have terrible consequences.

The average perception of housing seems to be that it will always rise, so if the yield is poor oh well the house can be sold at a profit.. People use the dramatic rise from the 90s to now as that's what's going to happen forever. The crash of 2008 doesn't seem to have changed anyone's outlook. Now you could argue that's perfectly fair assumption we are not building enough houses and flats for our population growth. On the other hand look at the impact of Grenfell on flats. Look at the impact of COVID on people's desire to live in small city houses and flats.

We need fair and accurate comparisons so that bad landlords (either by deliberate intent or people in over their heads out) are stopped.

I paid 260,000 and get £12000 a year (that's actually well below other returns) is too simplistic How much work do you have to put in. Even going with an agent to do everything for you it's still as much or more work than investing in something like the FTSE 100 or the worldwide fund.

What are taxes, how often will you need to make repairs or replacements, are you budgeting for a new roof or will that go on the credit card.

What about time between tennant's is that factored in, tennant's who can't pay etc.

What about new government regulations. Such as energy efficiency.

Agency fees or the hours you put in instead. For instance while you were sorting out a plumber and dealing with late payments you could have been working at Sainsbury's instead so it should be factored in.

Obviously the big advantage is you will always own the land even if the house falls down, you don't have to have 260,000 you can share the risk with the bank.

Yeah of course there is a risk. Having bad tenants and tenants that don't pay is an absolute nightmare (and that's actually where the system is unfair on LL. It costs so much to legally get them out and you will lose at least £6-8000 in court fees/loss of rent).

Of course, you have to budget for repairs but how often does a house need a new roof, that's a bit of an extreme example. Remember all agent fees and repairs also come off your tax.

The agent will manage the house fully, the only work required is to OK any large works before they go ahead and complete a tax return each year. So in that respect (and ignoring the risk of a nightmare tenant) id say it is an easy investment. Just keep enough to one side for repairs, and your tax, the rest is a return for not doing much.

And if it all goes bad, take the £260,000 back out, sure there wouldn't be much loss, again less risk than shares taking a big dive.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Thread has become pointless once the el oh el just move north and works harder types started trolling the thread. I guess postal workers, nurses, refuse workers, junior doctors, retail workers, service industry workers the list goes on. None of these jobs should be done. Everyone should abandon the south of England and get into finance I guess?

arguably the thread became derailed as soon as the LLs are evil, and taking advantage of people as well as insinuating the LL who travelled so far for an arranged meeting should just suck it up waded in.
it is clearly a complex issue, we DO need all those people and getting on the housing ladder is hard now..... the issue isn't LLs tho (or at least that is not what needs to be fixed). if councils had low cost rental stock for those who needed it and if there were enough properties built then private rent would have to come down..... because if there are 4 renter's choosing from 7 properties to rent then the LL would have to win over the customer as opposed to if there were 4 renter's and 3 properties.

I don't think people should have to move up north (funnily enough that is what I had to do to get a job but I went the opposite direction).

BUT equally if you want to get on the housing ladder compromises may have to be made. I lived (rented) in a 3 bed house, converted to 4 bed with the dining room converted to a bedroom and had 4 other housemates for 3 or 4 years whilst I saved for a house. I could have got a flat on my own but would have cost far more .
also I lived in Cambridge. I had zero chance of affording a house there so I moved 15 miles out of town to the cheapest place in the area.

sadly even that town is now expensive. last time I looked 1 - 2 bed flats were starting from £120k and that was 2017ish I have no idea what they are now but more I expect .
so yes something has to change to give everyone a fighting chance of getting on the ladder if they choose
but at the same time, a person in their 1st year or so of their career maybe can't expect to be able to afford their for ever home in the specific area they choose (regardless of renting or buying) .. and maybe it is ok for them to live in shared accomodation for a few years to find their feet. I know I did and I had a fantastic time doing it as an early to mid 20 something.

 

[OspreyO]

I was saying £1,000 Gross. I fully understand that will get taxed at 40%

Plenty of houses around my way for £250 -£270,000 that would return £950-£1,200 a month (Gross).



Yeah of course there is a risk. Having bad tenants and tenants that don't pay is an absolute nightmare (and that's actually where the system is unfair on LL. It costs so much to legally get them out and you will lose at least £6-8000 in court fees/loss of rent).

Of course, you have to budget for repairs but how often does a house need a new roof, that's a bit of an extreme example. Remember all agent fees and repairs also come off your tax.

The agent will manage the house fully, the only work required is to OK any large works before they go ahead and complete a tax return each year. So in that respect (and ignoring the risk of a nightmare tenant) id say it is an easy investment. Just keep enough to one side for repairs, and your tax, the rest is a return for not doing much.

And if it all goes bad, take the £260,000 back out, sure there wouldn't be much loss, again less risk than shares taking a big dive.

I like the way the only repairs or maintenance you could think of was a roof.

Not heating, the boiler, plumbing, blocked toilets, rewiring, cleaning, painting, rubbish removal, holes in walls, stains on every surface, furniture repairs, replacement, locks, alarms...

But yeah new roof.

 

[EvilRob]

I was saying £1,000 Gross. I fully understand that will get taxed at 40%

Plenty of houses around my way for £250 -£270,000 that would return £950-£1,200 a month (Gross).

Comparing gross yield of a rental to gross income from a savings account is not useful at all.
I have to say, most of the landlord haters on this thread come across as rather dim. Not really surprising that they aren't getting on in life and floundering about trying to find someone else to blame.


This thread is completely derailed and in an infinite loop.

 

[Sythe79]

Your arguments work better when you present it as facts, not anecdotes.

But let's take the £2300 example, the first £920 of that would be gone in tax before you even start. Agency fees would take another 10%. So the yield at best is £1150/month before you consider other costs such as insurance, annual safety inspections, repair and maintenance etc.

For the example, I've assumed no mortgage costs too.

You haven't just moved the goalpost, you've come out to the match in all white carrying cricket bats.

I was asked how and told him. Maybe that's really the problem, all the landlords here just happen to be REALLY bad at it.

Of course the Argument has just got circular because any counterpoint to the sacred landlords either gets twisted to edge cases or ignored with lol you're just jealous. Just because I don't rent doesn't mean I don't have empathy for people that do and doesn't mean I don't see how broken it has been and still is.

 

[ci_newman]

You haven't just moved the goalpost, you've come out to the match in all white carrying cricket bats.

I was asked how and told him. Maybe that's really the problem, all the landlords here just happen to be REALLY bad at it.

Of course the Argument has just got circular because any counterpoint to the sacred landlords either gets twisted to edge cases or ignored with lol you're just jealous. Just because I don't rent doesn't mean I don't have empathy for people that do and doesn't mean I don't see how broken it has been and still is.

I don't rent and nor am I a landlord (and have no wish to be either). Jog on

 

[dowie]

Thread has become pointless once the el oh el just move north and works harder types started trolling the thread. I guess postal workers, nurses, refuse workers, junior doctors, retail workers, service industry workers the list goes on. None of these jobs should be done. Everyone should abandon the south of England and get into finance I guess?

Literally no one has said that though, you're just making things up to have a rant about.

 

[Sythe79]

I don't rent and nor am I a landlord (and have no wish to be either). Jog on

Nicely, well constructed comeback. Jog on ? Lol make me.

 

[dowie]

I was saying £1,000 Gross. I fully understand that will get taxed at 40%

Plenty of houses around my way for £250 -£270,000 that would return £950-£1,200 a month (Gross).

[...]

Yeah of course there is a risk. Having bad tenants and tenants that don't pay is an absolute nightmare (and that's actually where the system is unfair on LL. It costs so much to legally get them out and you will lose at least £6-8000 in court fees/loss of rent).

Of course, you have to budget for repairs but how often does a house need a new roof, that's a bit of an extreme example. Remember all agent fees and repairs also come off your tax.

It's not just tax you need worry about in that case, you were talking about guaranteed income which made it sound like you'd got an agency agreement/insurance for repairs/maintenance and guaranteed rental income from them.

Like perhaps you had a student house in an area that yielded say 8%+ and you were happy to give up a chunk of that in fees, insurance, maintenance contracts etc.. and earn £1000, "guaranteed", before tax.

If you're actually talking about £1000 before any costs then that's very different, most agencies won't guarantee rent (if they did they'd want a fat fee for it or have a great supply of say students and are great at checking them/getting guarantees from parents etc..), paying for a maintenance contract for any minor repairs and insurance for major ones costs money... as will things like an annual inspection etc..

I get the general point, why wouldn't people become landlords given they can earn X... but actually it's not really so great an investment at the moment, I wouldn't become one, in plenty of areas the yield isn't great + prices may well fall. There are some additional disincentives in place now like higher rates of SDLT on additional homes (and on homes bought through a company) and the inability to offset mortgage interest fully if not a company etc. This is perhaps why the trend at the moment if for landlords to sell up more than they're buying and consequently, rent is going up a bit.