The joy of being a landlord

[volt9291]

I like the way the only repairs or maintenance you could think of was a roof.

Not heating, the boiler, plumbing, blocked toilets, rewiring, cleaning, painting, rubbish removal, holes in walls, stains on every surface, furniture repairs, replacement, locks, alarms...

But yeah new roof.

I didn’t say the only maintenance was a new roof, I was saying that was a bad example from the person that posted it as:
1. It’s very expensive
2. It’s not exactly a thing that has to be replaced often.
Unless that wasn’t aimed at me!?

Fully understand the other maintenance costs involved. Hence my earlier post (way back) saying some people do actually want to rent as they like the fact that they have no worries about big costs for maintenance issues (yes with a normal landlord that keeps his property maintained, not the evil scum type that some how get away with it).

Some of the things you list the landlord wouldn’t pay for.

A hole in the wall would be coming out of their deposit!
As for blocked toilets, if it’s due to their negligence then I’d also expect them to pay/sort it. They have a responsibility to look after the place.
Something broken/out of their control I would fix.

 

[NVP]

Thread has become pointless once the el oh el just move north and works harder types started trolling the thread. I guess postal workers, nurses, refuse workers, junior doctors, retail workers, service industry workers the list goes on. None of these jobs should be done. Everyone should abandon the south of England and get into finance I guess?

Whos said this? Definitely not me considering I know nurses, jnr doctors, postal workers and even retail employees who all own their own homes.

I guess sacrifice and effort breed reward, who'd have guessed?

 

[volt9291]

It's not just tax you need worry about in that case, you were talking about guaranteed income which made it sound like you'd got an agency agreement/insurance for repairs/maintenance and guaranteed rental income from them.

Like perhaps you had a student house in an area that yielded say 8%+ and you were happy to give up a chunk of that in fees, insurance, maintenance contracts etc.. and earn £1000, "guaranteed", before tax.

If you're actually talking about £1000 before any costs then that's very different, most agencies won't guarantee rent (if they did they'd want a fat fee for it or have a great supply of say students and are great at checking them/getting guarantees from parents etc..), paying for a maintenance contract for any minor repairs and insurance for major ones costs money... as will things like an annual inspection etc..

I get the general point, why wouldn't people become landlords given they can earn X... but actually it's not really so great an investment at the moment, I wouldn't become one, in plenty of areas the yield isn't great + prices may well fall. There are some additional disincentives in place now like higher rates of SDLT on additional homes (and on homes bought through a company) and the inability to offset mortgage interest fully if not a company etc. This is perhaps why the trend at the moment if for landlords to sell up more than they're buying and consequently, rent is going up a bit.

The income is guaranteed, it’s a set rent coming in each, that’s what I’m on about.
You just can’t guarantee how much you may need to pay out for maintenance each month.

Back to my point, I think it’s a good investment if you have good long term tenants. I get the other factors and risks.

 

[bris]

I dont think we can really have this thread without going into the origins of it and why we are now having this thread in the first place.

We should start at the beginning, the early 80's, that's when the wicked witch of the west was in power.

She decided it would be a good idea (well a gift to her wealthy friends) to start the Great British robbery, that was selling the utilities, phones, post office, Trains, water etc for a song.

Of course she made this big deal about the average man being able to get in on the act. So they did, the average man bought a few shares but being the average man those shares were sold when they made a bit profit leaving her investors to snap them all up but thats another story, related but another story.

Then of course the Houses, she decided it would be a good idea for make the councils sell their housing stock to the tenants. great is everyone though but in reality it was the biggest give away of the countries assets ever.

So we bought them in their millions at a huge discount the average man now has a mortgage and owns their home. Great I hear you all say.

Now comes the relevance to this thread

All my portfolio is ex council homes, all my friends portfolios are ex council homes. The huge. huge majority of landlords portfolios are ex council homes. So we swapped cheap council rents for large LL private rents.

I could never have built my portfolio on Bellway, Walker home etc as they were built for the blue collar workers and the average person simply couldn't afford them, sure there are a few but not many.

So we have private LL.s now that can be vilified if that's your way of thinking but in reality all we are is the people that house the people that can never get a council home because the waiting list is years as the councils were forced to literally sell the houses.

So where does the blame lie, the people that house those who could never get on the property ladder so are forced to rent or the Mad Tories who sold the country down the river in the 80's. just because it was 40 years ago doesn't mean its not true.

Some LL's are scum, I don't deny that, I have only seen what most of you have seen what's on the telly but I'm sure there are lots of them. That doesn't mean we all get tarred with the same brush just because someone saw a scumbag on the telly.

 

[Sythe79]

That's your problem and why I say everyone here must be bad landlords, if you buy a 250k house on a road where houses are 250k to turn round the next day then of course you are limiting your income (altho for the last 20 years you couldn't lose) and doing nothing but help to distort the market.

A good landlord will actually at least put to effort to find an undervalued wreak in an area that suits what he wants to achieve, spend the money on rental speccing it and at the same time reducing the risk of large repair costs in the near future.

If you are interest only and not buying another one within 3–5 years, then you are doing it wrong.

If you are buying a new build identa-kit flat in a city centre you are probably doing it wrong depending on where you live.

Maybe the thread name should be changed to the joys of being bad at land lording.

 

[Lopéz]

The income is guaranteed, it’s a set rent coming in each, that’s what I’m on about.
You just can’t guarantee how much you may need to pay out for maintenance each month.

Back to my point, I think it’s a good investment if you have good long term tenants. I get the other factors and risks.

How is the income guaranteed? What if you don't have a tenant, or you have a lengthy non paying tenant?

 

[Sythe79]

How is the income guaranteed? What if you don't have a tenant, or you have a lengthy non paying tenant?

Put some effort in a make sure you vet your tenants properly ? Or target the bottom of the market, which these days is a really large bottom, and suck off of the government teat with housing benefit

 

[Lopéz]

Put some effort in a make sure you vet your tenants properly ? Or target the bottom of the market, which these days is a really large bottom, and suck off of the government teat with housing benefit

I don't have any tenants.

Housing benefit is not paid directly to landlords, so a dodgy tenant will just not pass it on, it's not a get out of jail card to take on tenants who are on housing benefit.

 

[volt9291]

How is the income guaranteed? What if you don't have a tenant, or you have a lengthy non paying tenant?

Ok, It's not 100%, I understand the risks.

No tenant, no loss (unless you have a mortgage).
Nonpaying is a big risk though.

But from experience having a tenant in for a long time means the income is quite safe.

 

[Sythe79]

I don't have any tenants.

Housing benefit is not paid directly to landlords, so a dodgy tenant will just not pass it on, it's not a get out of jail card to take on tenants who are on housing benefit.

Again, edge casing, what percentage of renters don't pay out of interest per year in the UK ? I don't mean can't pay, I mean set out to rip off the landlord best I can see is 7% in arrears during the pandemic so less than that.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed in life or business, why should landlords be protected ? I named two ways to reduce the risk.

 

[FoxEye]

I dont think we can really have this thread without going into the origins of it and why we are now having this thread in the first place.

We should start at the beginning, the early 80's, that's when the wicked witch of the west was in power.

She decided it would be a good idea (well a gift to her wealthy friends) to start the Great British robbery, that was selling the utilities, phones, post office, Trains, water etc for a song.

Of course she made this big deal about the average man being able to get in on the act. So they did, the average man bought a few shares but being the average man those shares were sold when they made a bit profit leaving her investors to snap them all up but thats another story, related but another story.

Then of course the Houses, she decided it would be a good idea for make the councils sell their housing stock to the tenants. great is everyone though but in reality it was the biggest give away of the countries assets ever.

So we bought them in their millions at a huge discount the average man now has a mortgage and owns their home. Great I hear you all say.

Now comes the relevance to this thread

All my portfolio is ex council homes, all my friends portfolios are ex council homes. The huge. huge majority of landlords portfolios are ex council homes. So we swapped cheap council rents for large LL private rents.

I could never have built my portfolio on Bellway, Walker home etc as they were built for the blue collar workers and the average person simply couldn't afford them, sure there are a few but not many.

So we have private LL.s now that can be vilified if that's your way of thinking but in reality all we are is the people that house the people that can never get a council home because the waiting list is years as the councils were forced to literally sell the houses.

So where does the blame lie, the people that house those who could never get on the property ladder so are forced to rent or the Mad Tories who sold the country down the river in the 80's. just because it was 40 years ago doesn't mean its not true.

Some LL's are scum, I don't deny that, I have only seen what most of you have seen what's on the telly but I'm sure there are lots of them. That doesn't mean we all get tarred with the same brush just because someone saw a scumbag on the telly.

The majority of this I agree with. The problem certainly originates with Right to Buy (an utterly disastrous policy) and the current ban on councils increasing their social housing provision.

I'm sure there are landlords who treat their tenants well, in the sense of fixing things that need fixing and ensuring the house is habitable. However, even those that treat their tenants well seem to find it difficult to not increase the rent each year, which often results in tenants being unable to afford to continue to live in the house they've (somewhat) made their home.

And that's the root of the problem, really. You have what should be a basic human right (for all), being subject to motivations of profit and "return on investment". It's entirely the wrong model under which to be providing housing for the low-paid, the vulnerable, or simply people who want to put down roots in an area and have some kind of security.

Private rental might suit some people, especially those who want to move around and earn a good wage. For others (the low-paid esp.), it can lead to an absolutely miserable experience, with zero security of tenancy, living hand-to-mouth, and zero hope of ever saving anything (like for a deposit).

How about we say that, if private landlords want to say, "We provide a service," that we also agree the service they provide is ill-suited to the low-paid, and much more suited to professional people who don't have money worries.

 

[volt9291]

Comparing gross yield of a rental to gross income from a savings account is not useful at all.
I have to say, most of the landlord haters on this thread come across as rather dim. Not really surprising that they aren't getting on in life and floundering about trying to find someone else to blame.


This thread is completely derailed and in an infinite loop.

Are you saying I am a landlord hater?

I am a landlord


Maybe I have poorly put my point across...

I get £22,000 a year from 2 properties. Out of that comes Tax, agent fees, maintenance, etc. so I am fully aware of all the costs.
Before all the haters jump in I'm not an evil LL (how dare I say that), I always keep the properties maintained (it's in my interest to do so) to keep my good tenants. Last year I had to replace both boilers at a cost of about £5,500 each and it was done within a week (the quickest the plumber could book it in), no bother to me, comes off the tax, keeps the house in tip-top condition.

Once I retire at 55 it will be a nice little top-up to my pension (won't be paying 40% tax on it).

So for me, it's an investment. Hense asking what are the other options to get me the same return for the same about of work, which is not much at all (the odd email to/from the agent and a self-assessment tax return each year).

Both properties are worth £260,000. 1 is mortgage free, and 1 has a small amount left (38K).

If there isn't an option that is equal to what I'm getting now. ill keep doing what I am doing.

 

[FoxEye]

Are you saying I am a landlord hater?

I am a landlord


Maybe I have poorly put my point across...

I get £22,000 a year from 2 properties. Out of that comes Tax, agent fees, maintenance, etc. so I am fully aware of all the costs.
Before all the haters jump in I'm not an evil LL (how dare I say that), I always keep the properties maintained (it's in my interest to do so) to keep my good tenants. Last year I had to replace both boilers at a cost of about £5,500 each and it was done within a week (the quickest the plumber could book it in), no bother to me, comes off the tax, keeps the house in tip-top condition.

Once I retire at 55 it will be a nice little top-up to my pension (won't be paying 40% tax on it).

So for me, it's an investment. Hense asking what are the other options to get me the same return for the same about of work, which is not much at all (the odd email to/from the agent and a self-assessment tax return each year).

Both properties are worth £260,000. 1 is mortgage free, and 1 has a small amount left (38K).

If there isn't an option that is equal to what I'm getting now. ill keep doing what I am doing.

So landlords aren't really "feeling the squeeze" at all, except those perhaps were are leveraged to the absolute hilt.

For you at least, it seems to be a nice little earner, with early retirement in view.

Especially nice that you can write the cost of a new boiler off as a tax deductible. The taxpayer certainly does love to help the private landlords, don't they. Housing benefit paid to landlords, tax deductibles, still writing a portion of your mortgage interest off...

The others crying for sympathy because there's so little money in it... they should have a word with you, methinks (not that I believe them in the first place).

 

[EvilRob]

So for me, it's an investment. Hense asking what are the other options to get me the same return for the same about of work, which is not much at all (the odd email to/from the agent and a self-assessment tax return each year).

No one can tell you that because you haven't given your net yield.

 

[volt9291]

So landlords aren't really "feeling the squeeze" at all, except those perhaps were are leveraged to the absolute hilt.

For you at least, it seems to be a nice little earner, with early retirement in view.

Especially nice that you can write the cost of a new boiler off as a tax deductible. The taxpayer certainly does love to help the private landlords, don't they. Housing benefit paid to landlords, tax deductibles, still writing a portion of your mortgage interest off...

The others crying for sympathy because there's so little money in it... they should have a word with you, methinks (not that I believe them in the first place).

Yeah basically.

The portfolio landlords that have 10+ (or whatever number) properties all living off the cash flow from interest only and/or long terms and low repayment mortgages that were on such low-interest rates are now having a shock!

My remaining mortgage deal that ends next month is at 2.53%, it is going up to 5.34% but to me, it's only about £50 a month increase.

I fully get that I have someone paying down my mortgage, in fact, thought it's only since I've cleared the other mortgage that it all pays for itself now. I was having to put a few £100 into the account each month to be covered. Again, I fully get is not a bad deal to eventually own 2 houses outright and have a monthly income from them with it only costing me a few £100 each month.

I don't really look at what the properties are worth, I'm not in it for that. I've been in for the long-term goal of the monthly income. Of course, it's nice to know something I got for £135,000 and £140,000 is now worth £260,000 each, if I did ever want out. but ill stick with the monthly income and possibly a place for my kids one day.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Literally no one has said that though, you're just making things up to have a rant about.

Errr go back to I think it was lopez and someone else just a page ago.

 

[Pottsey]

“So landlords aren't really "feeling the squeeze" at all, except those perhaps were are leveraged to the absolute hilt.”

Just because 1 landlord with a different setup to a typical landlord is doing ok it doesn’t mean all landlords aren't really "feeling the squeeze". The squeeze has been proven real even the landlord you are talking about is paying more tax than they used to. Just because some are positioned better to not have a problem doesn’t mean there is no squeeze and no one is having a problem.
Try looking past you bias as not only is the squeeze real but it’s havening a negative impact on renters. Rather than denying its real and pretending like renters are ok. The squeeze is real and bad for everyone landlords and renters.

“specially nice that you can write the cost of a new boiler off as a tax deductible. The taxpayer certainly does love to help the private landlords, don't they. “

What a stupid thing to say when not long back the taxman has made it so landlords pay more tax and the taxman has reduced tax deductibles. So you see paying more tax and less tax deductibles as being nice of the taxman to help private landlords? That just goes to show how extremely bias you are. Do you even realize pretty much all business's have tax deductibles. Let me guess your so bias and focused on attacking the landlord you cannot even see why its setup like this to benefit the renter as well as the landlord.

“The others crying for sympathy because there's so little money in it... they should have a word with you, methinks (not that I believe them in the first place).”

You don’t half speak a lot of nonsense. Do you understand the difference between Volt9291 and the other landlords that are struggling and it’s not that they are leveraged to the absolute hilt. No landlords that I can see are crying for sympathy. You’re just making more nonsense up like you have throughout this thread. Really all your doing so far is weakening your position and showing how you don't trust other people as you think they are all lying when they are telling the truth.

 

[NVP]

Errr go back to I think it was lopez and someone else just a page ago.

Quotes would help...

 

[ColdAsIce]

Quotes would help...

I will when I get on the pc but for people earning just on or a little under the national average wage. There are city’s / areas etc especially down south that the answer is “work harder, work smarter” live in a dump of a flat share for years. Have no social life etc. surely everyone, especially millions doing important jobs deserve a chance on the property ladder without relying on bank of mum and dad, inheritance or completely changing career into something that pays 60k plus?

 

[dowie]

Errr go back to I think it was lopez and someone else just a page ago.

Why not just quote whatever it is you're referring to? Then it can be seen directly without any added hype/distortion on your part.

Especially nice that you can write the cost of a new boiler off as a tax deductible. The taxpayer certainly does love to help the private landlords, don't they. Housing benefit paid to landlords, tax deductibles, still writing a portion of your mortgage interest off...

LOL this is just pure envy/bitterness at this point tbh... it's comical. A business is able to deduct expenses when calculating P&L... who'd have thought it.

The taxpayer loves to help the local GPs too, NHS funds paid to their privately owned practices. They love to help those waste collection companies with some council tax income paid to them. They love to help out Tesco, JSA and disability payments spent on groceries.

Not really too clear what your objection is there, if someone loses their job and requires housing benefits or UC to pay the rent then that's part of the social safety net we have in this country.