Patience from the fans would go a lot further than money tbh
The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
Patience from the fans would go a lot further than money tbh
The fans are more than patient enough. Mourinho will get this season as a free pass, and I don't mind that, but next season things will need improving massively.
Players we've spent money on don't even play (Mkhitaryan being the prime example), then you have others from last season, Martial, Schneiderlin, etc.
All that said, we haven't been that bad in the last few games overall, we just make stupid mistakes in defence and the attackers aren't converting chances well enough.
Will he and why? Moyes wasn't given a free pass and he hadn't spent a fraction of what Mourinho has.
You employ Mourinho for one reason and that's results. You ignore the football his teams play, the circus around him and the damage he leaves behind because he gets results in the short term. If he's not getting results then it's much harder to tolerate him.
Take the mourinho name out of it for a second
If it was anyone else, with the circus that JM has around him and you are probably correct but also look at the dire football Utd have had to suffer for the last three years and compare it to the current performances JM is getting from the team - which is 10* better and more consistant than anything under Moyes or LvG - and then it doesnt seem so bad.
There were long periods under LvG esp where we barely created chances. JM 's team is creating them in bucketloads, just not converting them.
If Utd can get Smalling and Bailly back and start putting out a consistant back four - hey even a consistant XI given Europa group will be done soon for 6 weeks or so ... and there is a 9 day break in the schedule in Dec also....it SHOULD make the team more productive rather than the constant chopping and changing for the EPL, EFL/Carling Cup whatever its called, and Europa.
Also at some point the board surely HAS to say, after a few quick hire /fire sequences surely its time to stick and let one manager's idea come to fruition over several years. Otherwise you lose that time when a new idea has to be invested in.
Apart from the Chelsea game (which undoubtedly was a complete disaster) , its not like Utd are leaking major amounts of goals in every game. Given the amount Utd are creating putting another one or two away - even while conceeding the one "gift" we seem to give away at the moment - will win majority of games.
Do that two or three times and the team spirit will be through the roof
Last edited:
I really don't know how what you've said relates to my post.
Utd didn't want Mourinho 3 years ago because of all the baggage that comes with him, they chose to gamble on Moyes instead. Mourinho got the job now because Utd wanted an instant fix after the mess of Moyes and LVG - that after all is Mourinho's one and only selling point, he gets instant results.
If he's not getting those results then why do you stick with him? He's not going to play great football (which fans will only tolerate so much), he's not going to build for the future by bringing through youngsters and he's shown time and time again that within 3 years the constant infighting blows up in his face and he divides dressing rooms and entire football clubs.
It's been bad for a while now, Moyes was never going to work out for various reasons.
Mourinho has started off badly - for a change - so maybe things will be different this time, or he'll continue to be poor into next season and end up going.
I've wanted him since SAF retired so I'm prepared to give him longer, even if things are difficult at the moment, and I think the board will do the same. He has a very strong record, which does make a significant difference.
That is true, but clearly I'm talking over the past 10-15 years. That is why I'm prepared to give him the chance to reinvent himself, or do whatever he seems to be doing. There has been a gradual improvement on the pitch, even though silly mistakes and wasteful finishing have cost us over the last few games.
The above doesn't mean he can't be criticised though, as mentioned, I'm not sure what he's doing with the squad/tactics half of the time, seems very unorganised.
Because you cant take it in isolation. The bigger picture is that two managers have failed in quick succession and at some point you have to give someone a little more time.
If the board were to fire JM, the snafu that is the current squad would only get worse as there would be 3 different managers personal picks in that squad at the very least and a fourth manager would probably want different players trying to play in a different style again.
Thats just going to delay any significant improvements even further.
Thats without considering the potential fall out for big stars getting ****** off with the constant changes and wanting out asap. Considering how long its taking to shake off LvG's methods dont you have to give the players a little more time to really get to understand JM and how he wants everything
Mourinho has us playing some good football at the moment so I perfectly happy with him. After the **** of the past 3 seasons its nice to enjoy watching a United match. The results will come in time.
You can argue all you want that Moyes and LvG were sacked because of results but a large part of it was the football they played. It was turgid, dull and was sapping all the life out of the team and the fans. If you have seen United play this season we are much better in general and especially the last 4 or so games.
Chelsea downed tools last season but their performances this season aren't as good as they were the last season Chelsea won the title. Its not like Conte is doing a Ranieri and taking a budget team on a great run of form.
You can argue all you want that Moyes and LvG were sacked because of results but a large part of it was the football they played. It was turgid, dull and was sapping all the life out of the team and the fans. If you have seen United play this season we are much better in general and especially the last 4 or so games.
Chelsea downed tools last season but their performances this season aren't as good as they were the last season Chelsea won the title. Its not like Conte is doing a Ranieri and taking a budget team on a great run of form.
You're completely missing the point. Mourinho got the job for the exact opposite reason you're suggesting he should be given time. You don't appoint him for the long term, which is why he didn't get the job to begin with.
Utd have appointed 2 managers before him that have a track record of building for the future and have sacked them the second they failed to make top 4. They now appoint a manager that has no record of building for the future and you're they're going to give him time?
Because repeatedly sacking people and with it the constant flux of the squad is obviously not going to work
Different managers always have different approaches majority of the time, and because the competitveness of the EPL keeps on increasing, the harder it is for a team to succeed while only using a small subset of the squad.
Unless a manager can completely change a full squad (or at least 1st XI) in one transfer window, which is never going to happen, any new manager will potentially always be unhappy with a large percentage of the squad.
As Ive already said, repeatedly sacking managers isnt working (and rarely has worked in the past for other clubs) so at some point Utd have to stick with what they have and push through it.
No reason at all at this point to not give JM at least the same amount of time as LvG
Beyond stupid to suggest giving up on him after ~ 3 months of competitive football
Different managers always have different approaches majority of the time, and because the competitveness of the EPL keeps on increasing, the harder it is for a team to succeed while only using a small subset of the squad.
Unless a manager can completely change a full squad (or at least 1st XI) in one transfer window, which is never going to happen, any new manager will potentially always be unhappy with a large percentage of the squad.
As Ive already said, repeatedly sacking managers isnt working (and rarely has worked in the past for other clubs) so at some point Utd have to stick with what they have and push through it.
No reason at all at this point to not give JM at least the same amount of time as LvG
Beyond stupid to suggest giving up on him after ~ 3 months of competitive football
I completely agree that constantly sacking managers is counter productive but that's the road Utd have taken with managers that have a history of building for the future. Nobody (to my knowledge anyway) has said Mourinho should be given up on after 3 months but I'd strongly question why he will be given a free pass this season when I have no doubt in my mind that the only reason Utd went to him was because they expected instant results. You have to remember that Mourinho himself said the target was the title this season.
If Utd decided they were going to take a long term approach this time around then they wouldn't have appointed Mourinho.
If Utd decided they were going to take a long term approach this time around then they wouldn't have appointed Mourinho.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 57,939
- Location
- Surrey
I think it's a bit much to say Moyes had a history of building for the future.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 57,939
- Location
- Surrey
Did they? It felt more like they got a pretty good finish (the year they finished fourth) then after that they stagnated around the same level. Either way, building a mid table team hardly lends itself to building a premier league winning team for the future. If anything Jose has more experience of that.
Yes. Prior to Moyes Everton were at best mid table, often battling relegation. He established them in the top half, often pushing for European places.
As for the 2nd part of your post, I agree entirely and said as much when he got the job, and got shouted down again
The point is I don't see any reason why Utd will give Mourinho, a manager that's only selling point is he gets short term results, time when they wouldn't give that time to Moyes or LVG, who were far more likely to have been appointed with longer term ambitions.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 57,939
- Location
- Surrey
I think Mourinho has shown more signs of having the United core. Moyes showed he was incompetent immediately and LVG had some pros but just couldn't get us playing good football. Mourinho has a lot to prove but the signs are there that he can get us playing good football. Unless we have a disastrous finish this season I think he'll get another year.
As I touched on right at the beginning, Mourinho comes with a lot of baggage and clubs only put up with it because he gets results. At any club when results aren't positive you get a bit of discontent in the dressing room but with Mourinho it's 10 fold - you're already talking about his perculiar treatment of certain players and the longer things go without results picking up they'll start talking out more and more.
My opinion is if Utd don't make the CL this season he'll be gone one way or another.
My opinion is if Utd don't make the CL this season he'll be gone one way or another.
I think I've said it before in here but the problem I have is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of development, any sort of plan we're working towards. With Klopp even early on you could see the high press, quick football coming in. With Conte obviously you've got the change of system which is now working wonders for them. With Mourinho thus far we've just had a random assortment of players in random positions with no signs of a 'destination' if you like.