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You have some strange logic Frank. Liverpool finished below both Utd and City and spent considerably less than both (we actually had a negative net spend) yet are currently sitting top of the table. This idea that you have to spend more than another side to catch/overtake them is nonsense, especially when Utd have spent more in 1 summer than most squads in the League cost to assemble.

As for Mkhitaryan/Veron. Veron may have flopped but that's a risk you take with any signing. Nobody knows whether Mkhitaryan is suited or not because he't not getting a look in.
 
BaZ87 said:
You have some strange logic Frank. Liverpool finished below both Utd and City and spent considerably less than both (we actually had a negative net spend) yet are currently sitting top of the table. This idea that you have to spend more than another side to catch/overtake them is nonsense, especially when Utd have spent more in 1 summer than most squads in the League cost to assemble.

As for Mkhitaryan/Veron. Veron may have flopped but that's a risk you take with any signing. Nobody knows whether Mkhitaryan is suited or not because he't not getting a look in.
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and your manager has been working with your team 3/4 of a season longer so that balances out quite a lot of the difference (for instance, Klopp already knew the majority of your starters even before a competitve ball was kicked)

and yes it still makes a difference.

One way or another each purchase is either meant to adding points to what the team got last season, or reducing the number of points lost (if they are primarily a defender)

This is how ALL positions are valued at the end of the day.

If City got (lets say) 10% more points over the season, and they then spend £50m more - that initial 10% is going to potentially be significantly more (and obviously when comparing another team its irrelevant if they are reducing lost points as its effectively the same from the opponants p.o.v).

Obviously any manager then has to to equate the improvements / or losses in players he is keeping / sold.


We have to take for granted at the moment that Mou is not seeing what he wants to in training
 
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Mourinho getting the Utd job was the worst kept secret in football, if he hadn't spent the last 6 months of the season studying Utd then he shouldn't have got the job.

As for the 2nd sentence onwards - I've no ****ing idea what you're talking about.
 
Klopp has been the Liverpool manager for over a year now, I don't see how Mourinho having watched us play last season even remotely compares to that.
 
omnomnom said:
Mourinho also has bag loads of experiance in the premier league, should count for something right?
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Good point, Frank loves a bit of Premier League experience. Given that Mourinho has so much more than Klopp, Guardiola and Conte combined, coupled with the most expensive squad in the world and spending more in a summer than most managers spend in a career, the league should be over ;)
 
I think UTD is unique compared to those other sides though, given the history and everything but there's definitely something going on. Do people think the quality of players stacks up against the wages with UTD, i don't. i saw an article about UTD's wage total being the largest in Europe, crazy.
 
Utd have always paid over the odds on wages and always will. As soon as you start paying players big money it's incredibly difficult to turn it around, no matter whether the quality of the players decline. A players wage is based on what other players at the club earn as much as it's based on their quality so when Utd are paying Rooney £300k per week that's the benchmark any new signing uses when negotiating their contract.
 
Trusty said:
I think UTD is unique compared to those other sides though, given the history and everything but there's definitely something going on. Do people think the quality of players stacks up against the wages with UTD, i don't. i saw an article about UTD's wage total being the largest in Europe, crazy.
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We do pay them stupid wages but that article was full of nonsense. The wages used for Spanish players for example were after tax was taken off while they used pre-tax numbers for our players, they also did the usual substituting £ for €. Then there's the fact that they don't actually know how much a lot of the players are getting paid.
 
BaZ87 said:
Really? Have you got anything to back that up because I'm pretty sure that's nonsense.
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Go read the article yourself it was the Mirror one. They say things like :

Ronaldo £365k per week
Rooney £260k per week

Ronaldo's wage is actually (edit - just to clarify it's reported to be, they don't actually know how much he or rooney make) €32m per year / €615k pew week before tax. The only nonsense was in the article.
 
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BaZ87 said:
Utd have always paid over the odds on wages and always will. As soon as you start paying players big money it's incredibly difficult to turn it around, no matter whether the quality of the players decline. A players wage is based on what other players at the club earn as much as it's based on their quality so when Utd are paying Rooney £300k per week that's the benchmark any new signing uses when negotiating their contract.
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Im not sure if i buy the benchmark thing, if they dont, they should use world benchmark figures. I find it hard to believe that Rooney's contract has screwed the whole thing..
 
NexusK said:
Go read the article yourself it was the Mirror one. They say things like :

Ronaldo £365k per week
Rooney £260k per week

Ronaldo's wage is actually (edit - just to clarify it's reported to be, they don't actually know how much he or rooney make) €32m per year / €615k pew week before tax. The only nonsense was in the article.
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As Trusty's post, it wasn't a Mirror article. The figures have come from the Global Sports Salaries Survey. What you're suggesting isn't true.
Trusty said:
Im not sure if i buy the benchmark thing, if they dont, they should use world benchmark figures. I find it hard to believe that Rooney's contract has screwed the whole thing..
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It's not a new thing nor is it specific to Utd. At every club players will compare their wages to what the club is paying other players. If you're paying your top players £200k per week, you can't then justify paying the players rung below £25k per week. Take Ashley Young, rumoured to be on £120k per week at Utd, more than the highest earners at Spurs.

As above, it's not specific to Utd. City will be paying a lot of average players huge money because their best players are earning so much. When Liverpool gave Suarez a £200k per week contract, within 12 months we had to give pay rises to the likes of Sturridge & Henderson, and of course you had Sterling then demanding parity with Sturridge.
 
BaZ87 said:
As Trusty's post, it wasn't a Mirror article. The figures have come from the Global Sports Salaries Survey. What you're suggesting isn't true.


It's not a new thing nor is it specific to Utd. At every club players will compare their wages to what the club is paying other players. If you're paying your top players £200k per week, you can't then justify paying the players rung below £25k per week. Take Ashley Young, rumoured to be on £120k per week at Utd, more than the highest earners at Spurs.

As above, it's not specific to Utd. City will be paying a lot of average players huge money because their best players are earning so much. When Liverpool gave Suarez a £200k per week contract, within 12 months we had to give pay rises to the likes of Sturridge & Henderson, and of course you had Sterling then demanding parity with Sturridge.
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I agree with what youre saying. but theres definitely sonething going on, theres people who dont know what they are doing at that club. take that article for example, Arsenal, Chelsea & Liverpool all way down, now compare the squads.. something doesnt add up
 
As I said, as soon as you start spending big on wages it's difficult to turn it around, regardless of whether the quality of player isn't the same. In 99% of cases, any player joining Utd will get more than had the same player joined Spurs so straight off Utd will pay more in wages than the same quality squads elsewhere.

The problem is made even worse if and when the player flops though. Take Depay - a player with a big reputation, joining a club that's paying Ashley Young £120k per week. I'd be stunned if he's on much less than £150k per week, which is double the amount he'd have got had he joined Spurs or even Liverpool. He's failed to live up to his reputation and now Utd are stuck with him because no club that would want him, can or would be willing to pay him what Utd are. And when Utd look to sign an attacking mid/winger in the future, they're not going to be pointing at Young's £120k per week, they'll now be pointing at Depay on £150k.
 
Yeah, i get that, i agree but i still think there's something else going on. UTD reminds me of the Romans, a bloated, crumbling empire with everyone around it scrambling to keep it afloat.
 
Trusty said:
Yeah, i get that, i agree but i still think there's something else going on. UTD reminds me of the Romans, a bloated, crumbling empire with everyone around it scrambling to keep it afloat.
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i likened it to 'Ozymandias' ages ago. infact, it was that long ago, gimp and tom84 were still stomping around at the time. tom84 dissapeared when ferguson retired :D
 
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