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I feel frustrated watching us and have for many seasons really.

It just feels like we have no explosiveness (despite having the likes of Martial in the side), certainly we lack players who are quick and good passers of the ball. For his reputation, Mkhitaryan is often anonymous.

Mata and Coutinho for example are both the same idea of player, yet one can do everything at twice the speed of the other, which is critical.
 
Robbo said:
I feel frustrated watching us and have for many seasons really.

It just feels like we have no explosiveness (despite having the likes of Martial in the side), certainly we lack players who are quick and good passers of the ball. For his reputation, Mkhitaryan is often anonymous.

Mata and Coutinho for example are both the same idea of player, yet one can do everything at twice the speed of the other, which is critical.
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He's old (Mata). His legs are done.

(Spoiler alert) Give it 12 months and Matic will be finished as a top level player too.

Herrera is alright but honestly what's he great at? He's a useful substitute midfielder - at best for us.

Lukaku tends to pick out the keeper with his shots. Mentioned this before but people didn't care because he scored a few that reboubded out. Way him against Liverpool. Thwts where you need a clinical finisher to win the points.

Valencia is trash despite a couple of decent performances. Lindleoff needs to **** orf.
 
Robbo said:
I feel frustrated watching us and have for many seasons really.

It just feels like we have no explosiveness (despite having the likes of Martial in the side), certainly we lack players who are quick and good passers of the ball. For his reputation, Mkhitaryan is often anonymous.

Mata and Coutinho for example are both the same idea of player, yet one can do everything at twice the speed of the other, which is critical.
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Completely agree unfortunately.

It doesnt help having a fast reasonable quality full back, who cant cross for toffee and scores one a season if that, and yet everyone in the club seems to love him.
(Nothing against him personally but totally pointless having an "attacking defender" who cant complete the attack)....and no definitiive full back on the other side

We bought one foreign centre half in the summer of '16 who settled in the club and in the EPL like a duck to water, but trick was never going to work again (Utd were lucky enough the 1st time), and now we are starting to pay for it, rather than paying for experience (not like the club couldnt afford to spend ~£20m more on an experienced centre half). After one very good season - 2 seasons ago now? - Smalling has turned into a bit of a liability, and I still think Jones is more likely than not to get a serious injury at some point very soon.

Mkhi has had those explosive games for Utd, but they are far too rare unfortunately.

For right or wrong I still think Mata is more likely to be (partially) responsible for us conceeding a goal than he is to actually scoring one - he talks the talk, but very rarely does the performance come with it.

Nearly every commentator before the season was saying how strong our squad was, maybe in numbers but actually in quality (now that nearly every game is so competitive) the squad is paper thin
 
I think our main problem is a thin squad quality wise and so many players underperforming. A lot of our midfielders are quite lightweight but not skilful enough to compensate for it. They are fine in games against a rubbish opposition who don't contest the midfield but as soon as a teams gets amongst us we struggle. Mkhitaryan, Mata and Lingard are all underperforming constantly at the moment and Rashford isn't enough of a team player.

We don't have a Coutinho or Silva in our midfield. Pogba will make a big difference when he is back but we haven't got that super technical playmaker in the final third who cuts teams to pieces. Mata is far too one footed, super weak and nowhere near quick enough to find pockets of space or get out of tricky situations.

I think in January a proper winger and and top class AM/Cm to partner Pogba is a must.

As always Valencia does my head in. Hes not a good defender and he is awful going forwards. Marauding forwards is completely pointless if you can't produce any sort of chance for your team 99% of the time.

I think that if we got Ozil on the cheap in Jan and then looked at a quality winger we would look good for the second half of the season.
 
The Running Man said:
He's old (Mata). His legs are done.

(Spoiler alert) Give it 12 months and Matic will be finished as a top level player too.

Herrera is alright but honestly what's he great at? He's a useful substitute midfielder - at best for us.

Lukaku tends to pick out the keeper with his shots. Mentioned this before but people didn't care because he scored a few that reboubded out. Way him against Liverpool. Thwts where you need a clinical finisher to win the points.

Valencia is trash despite a couple of decent performances. Lindleoff needs to **** orf.
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LOL What?!

Mata has never relied on his physicality.

Matic has plenty more years in him, his main strength is his positioning.

Herrera was, for me, one of the best players last season. He's great at winning the ball/breaking up play, driving forward when needed and picking out a good pass. A great all rounder.

Lukaku had no service against Liverpool and if you read Mourinho's post match interview he explains his tactics (and it makes sense). Essentially Mou had only 2 fit central midfielders to match Liverpool's three, so played two in the middle but was ultra defensive about it. He wanted to frustrate Liverpool (which we did), Klopp to then throw on some strikers and we then exploit the space. Klopp, very surprisingly did not do this and I was happy to leave there with a point. It's not Mou's tactics to go all out attack.

Valencia is a solid performer; what's the issue with him?

People are very quick to forget how trash Vidic, Evra was - look what happened to them. Lindelof is low on confidence and after one good game, will begin to grow. We signed him for a reason and no player should ever be judged after 3 months.

Yes we could use some more signings but McTominay looks decent and I'm happy for another academy to come through so let's hope he can do a job in midfield. We just need (and Mou did try to address this with Perisic) some more width with a traditional winger.
 
Pocket10s said:
LOL What?!

Mata has never relied on his physicality.

Matic has plenty more years in him, his main strength is his positioning.

Herrera was, for me, one of the best players last season. He's great at winning the ball/breaking up play, driving forward when needed and picking out a good pass. A great all rounder.

Lukaku had no service against Liverpool and if you read Mourinho's post match interview he explains his tactics (and it makes sense). Essentially Mou had only 2 fit central midfielders to match Liverpool's three, so played two in the middle but was ultra defensive about it. He wanted to frustrate Liverpool (which we did), Klopp to then throw on some strikers and we then exploit the space. Klopp, very surprisingly did not do this and I was happy to leave there with a point. It's not Mou's tactics to go all out attack.

Valencia is a solid performer; what's the issue with him?

People are very quick to forget how trash Vidic, Evra was - look what happened to them. Lindelof is low on confidence and after one good game, will begin to grow. We signed him for a reason and no player should ever be judged after 3 months.

Yes we could use some more signings but McTominay looks decent and I'm happy for another academy to come through so let's hope he can do a job in midfield. We just need (and Mou did try to address this with Perisic) some more width with a traditional winger.
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All players need a burst of acceleration of not outright pace. Otherwise how do the make or get into space?

Same with matic once he loses another half a yard he will not be as effective. He's not a brick wall, getting into positions, being able to break past a player defensively or attacking wise is a big deal. When he loses that there isn't much left. Chelsea probably looked at those stats before they sold him.

Quite, Herrera is a good all rounder, like Fletcher was bit he doesnt.impose himself on a game, he doesn't dominate the midfield and he doesn't create enough or score enough.

Against Liverpool that's just excuses. Look at what Tottenham dealt them. A resounding loss. If you want to win the league you can't play like that.
 
For an attacking full back - Valencia is awful at crossing

If Mou gets anyone in Jan (and I'm not convinced he will) he will go for a left full back - its really unfortunately about Luke Shaw, but I just don't think he will be given a decent chance again at Utd. I'm not sure who's side the main fault is (possibly a bit of both) but the club needs to sell him for as much as they can get and buy in a replacement. Wouldn't say no to Blind or Darmian being sold as well and giving one of the youngsters (as well as the new recruit) that additional game time.
 
Have to say I'm finding Mourinho a bit odd. I still like him, but:

He keeps moaning about injuries
He keeps moaning about opposition managers
He keeps moaning about the fans (this is the strangest thing)
He's giving strange interviews about what he wants to do as a next job

And he's recently refused to meet with the supporters trust over his comments about the fans.

Now I know moaning is his thing and I don't mind it, but it just seems very negative after a relatively small amount of criticism about the teams playing style, why does he care about that? It doesn't normally bother him this much.

God knows what will happen if we start losing a few games.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
I thought Shaw was brilliant before he broke his leg, that start he made to the season was great. Should be given a chance.
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He was brilliant then - but I just get the impression that JM has given up a bit, just giving him 5 minutes here and there which really arent going to help at all at this point.

Would be better for all parties to go their seperate ways so Utd can get a player who can go in that spot and play consistantly

Over the last four or 5 seasons it does appear as though we are really badly effected by injuries every season. Im not saying it doesnt happen else where, of course it does, are Utd more reliant on a very few core players though - which might make a bigger difference to the team performances?

Robbo said:
He keeps moaning about opposition managers
He's giving strange interviews about what he wants to do as a next job
.
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To be fair SAF did the 1st all the time, he was excellent at it - and while the latter was annoying , I can see why a caculating mind would do the latter - I get the feeling JM was a little pieved he didnt get the 4th player in the summer, however much he defended the board during the window itself.

Given he only has one more season after this on his contract, I dont like it but it makes sense he is trying to push the board already for an extention (whether its the right or wrong way is neither here nor there, its the way JM would always do it )
 
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So after the Chelsea game, I have the following thoughts:
  • We really, really miss Pogba and/or Carrick
  • We really, really need a winger that will whip in balls to the box
  • I've never really been that impressed by Mikky
  • Lukaku does not have the service
IMO, we should start the next game like the below:

------------------------Lukaku
Martial-----------------------------------------Valencia
-------Blind/McTominay-------Matic------Herrera
Blind/Shaw-----Jones/Smalling-----Bailly---Darmian
------------------------DeGea

  • Lukaku needs service, Valencia/Darmian will provide that.
  • Martial deserves a start and Rashford needs to learn to take those chances
  • We really need a 3 man midfield; Blind showed under LVG he can play there - with Herrera pushing further up forward; otherwise give McTominay a proper chance
  • I love Shaw, I really hope he gets another chance
  • Darmian always looked solid at RB
 
As I said a little while ago, it seems we have OK defensive players, decent attacking players but nothing inbetween.

Top level games are won and lost in midfield more often than not, and ours is poor.

Matic is fine as a holding player who can screen the defence and get the ball to Pogba, who makes things tick. Without Pogba we are just hopeless.

I could reel off a long list of fast, creative players who would be huge improvements on Mkhitaryan/Mata/Herrera too, but they do all perform better with Pogba in the side.

I know Mourinho wanted Perisic and we lost out over a few million, I think he would have provided an additional spark and helped a lot, but he's still not Pogba. Mourinho was obviously banking on Pogba never getting injured which is very risky.

This is quite telling:

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Those stats are slightly misleading. With Pogba in the side you played far weaker sides than since his injury, of course you're not going to score or create as much.
 
That’s true, but having watched all of the games, I don’t think it’s particularly misleading. The team simply doesn’t work without him. I hope he’s back after the international break and we’ll find out...
 
Started losing faith in Maureen towards the end of last season but I think it's fully gone. He's spent a fortune, had two windows to look at the dross and he's still playing defensive, lump ball football with really no tactics involved.

Look at the top teams and you see a DNA, a way of working the ball with an aim. United don't have anything close to it.

Nevermind how he's alienating players and now fans. He's a poisonous manager from the old days of coaching and I'm really sad the board hasn't tried to get a modern tactical manager with a philosophy.
 
I think he's done a good job, he's definitely improved us. I'm happy for him to continue as manager but I don't want us giving him a new contract yet. I think his runs until the end of next season? Let's see what the situation is at the end of this one. In the end I never expected us to walk the league this year, all I wanted was a sign of improvement and that we'd at least challenge for it. There's no shame if we end up losing to this Man City side if they manage to keep up this incredible form for the whole season.
 
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