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adam cool dude said:
He is basically talking about all these footballers who are in it for the media side of things. Players like Pogba and Jesse. Beck's was the beginning. He could have been an England all time great but got suckered in by his missus.
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yh had a feeling it was social media and personal brands related as Jesse seems more obsessed with his clothing line than his performances on the pitch etc
 
He specifically said in the interview that Pogba was a great influence in the dressing room and had a great workrate. The interview has been mistranslated and spread by the standard **** stirrers.

The fact that you even mentioned Beckham shows how little you understand. Beckham worked incredibly hard to achieve what he did and is easily an England all time great.
 
Shamikebab said:
He specifically said in the interview that Pogba was a great influence in the dressing room and had a great workrate. The interview has been mistranslated and spread by the standard **** stirrers.

The fact that you even mentioned Beckham shows how little you understand. Beckham worked incredibly hard to achieve what he did and is easily an England all time great.
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He could have been so much more though. His Career ended at 32. Look at how long Giggs, Scholes and Neville were at the top. Even Ferguson mentioned it.
 
sigma said:
Martial doesn’t seem to have the right mindset either. Such a shame.
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If he fails to get 20 this season fair enough if he does what then? If you look at world class players they start to do it around age 21. Look at Ronaldo after 21 always 20+ a season Messi and Mbappe also are class at 21.


These guys are what if at age 24 though, Lingard Martial Jones Smalling Da Silva twins Janunaz yawn the list goes on at players who should be looked at age 24 and realize that the time is up you have to be world class by 25.


Also i wish people would sort out this Pogba issue it really is Becks 2.0 always in the media but never for a motm is it? Still the worlds best #6 though if we can get him and Fred to cover for #10 Fernandes we will put a lot of this talk to bed because he will be playing in a top 3 midfield in world football. They would and will get Champions league football next year because that midfield will win the Europa League and if City get even a 1yr ban from European football then 5th place will be enough but again that midfield will actually grt top four if Pogba can be got back asap. Martial would also probably get 20 goals because of the sheer amount of quality passes from those three.
 
Matic gets a new contract on the back of his world class form of the past few season. Top work guys.
 
Not going to lie, I would prefer to be beating City by playing better football than them instead of defending for most of the game. If Pogba wants to go still then we should sell but if he wants to commit to the team and puts the effort in then he will definitely improve us. Pogba is a top player he has just been in **** teams with poor quality around him. We are finally getting to the stage where he has good enough players around him to actually allow him to shine. Teams won't think that if they shut down Pogba they can kill our creativity and he might not feel like he has to do so much on his own. I would like to see Fernandes and Pogba play together and see how they get on.
 
fez said:
Not going to lie, I would prefer to be beating City by playing better football than them instead of defending for most of the game. If Pogba wants to go still then we should sell but if he wants to commit to the team and puts the effort in then he will definitely improve us. Pogba is a top player he has just been in **** teams with poor quality around him. We are finally getting to the stage where he has good enough players around him to actually allow him to shine. Teams won't think that if they shut down Pogba they can kill our creativity and he might not feel like he has to do so much on his own. I would like to see Fernandes and Pogba play together and see how they get on.
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I agree with all of your points. If we went toe to toe with City yesterday though, we'd probably have lost. What we do have is some sort of base to build a good attacking team from, providing we continue to buy well. We're still years off competing for the title but we could and should get there if we get the right players.

People moan that Ole is tactically poor yet when he makes tactical changes to get a result people moan. Fergie used to set us up on the counter didn't he? Also in his last season we were playing some dodgy football at times, the midfield had never been the same since Scholes and Keane.

How about looking at the players? Why can't they be more consistent? Is it experience, attitude or ability? Ole isn't on the pitch himself.
 
Nothing wrong with playing on the counter, possession is meaningless if you do nothing with it. I'd rather have 20% possession and look like scoring than be like City or LVG days and have 80% but never look like scoring.
 
sigma said:
People moan that Ole is tactically poor yet when he makes tactical changes to get a result people moan. Fergie used to set us up on the counter didn't he? Also in his last season we were playing some dodgy football at times, the midfield had never been the same since Scholes and Keane.
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Its the subs he has been making and some of his team selections that have been baffling. Despite what some people say, we were playing largely **** football for a few years at the end of Fergies time. Again, relying on being well set up, people doing their jobs and a few top players compensating for an overall lack of quality. RvP was utterly sublime for that season. Scored some of the best goals I have ever seen. Covered over some gaping chasms.

sigma said:
How about looking at the players? Why can't they be more consistent? Is it experience, attitude or ability? Ole isn't on the pitch himself.
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You can only expect players to be consistent with a consistent team, tactics and good players around them that do what they expect. Its no surprise that the teams that are usually punching above their weight or generally doing well have a settled squad with a bunch of players who know what to do, where to be and what to do off the ball. Thats the coaching issue that has been very apparent with Ole. Fernandes has helped massively but that doesn't lead any weight to the argument that Ole has just been missing quality players. If you need top class players to win games, you are not coaching your team well. Those players should be the difference in tight games against top opponents, not players that should be constantly asked to perform miracles to beat the small teams.

I still don't think Ole is getting more from the players than their collective baseline. Adding better players to a team will always raise that baseline. I want a manager who raises that baseline through coaching. Either way, we will see how the season pans out in the next few months.
 
Shamikebab said:
Nothing wrong with playing on the counter, possession is meaningless if you do nothing with it. I'd rather have 20% possession and look like scoring than be like City or LVG days and have 80% but never look like scoring.
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Indeed... the LVG days! How boring were they at times? My point about counter attacking was that we didn't always go toe to toe, even in the heyday.

fez said:
Its the subs he has been making and some of his team selections that have been baffling. Despite what some people say, we were playing largely **** football for a few years at the end of Fergies time. Again, relying on being well set up, people doing their jobs and a few top players compensating for an overall lack of quality. RvP was utterly sublime for that season. Scored some of the best goals I have ever seen. Covered over some gaping chasms.



You can only expect players to be consistent with a consistent team, tactics and good players around them that do what they expect. Its no surprise that the teams that are usually punching above their weight or generally doing well have a settled squad with a bunch of players who know what to do, where to be and what to do off the ball. Thats the coaching issue that has been very apparent with Ole. Fernandes has helped massively but that doesn't lead any weight to the argument that Ole has just been missing quality players. If you need top class players to win games, you are not coaching your team well. Those players should be the difference in tight games against top opponents, not players that should be constantly asked to perform miracles to beat the small teams.

I still don't think Ole is getting more from the players than their collective baseline. Adding better players to a team will always raise that baseline. I want a manager who raises that baseline through coaching. Either way, we will see how the season pans out in the next few months.
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I think it's too early to tell - maybe they'll keep him on as DoF and get Poch in. Who knows? What we do know is that the club has suffered from years of mismanagement and managers with different philosophies - this isn't Ole's fault. If we finish top 4 and possibly a trophy then I can't see how the season won't be a reasonable success, all things considered.

I slightly disagree with needing class players. Look at City how they are without a few of their top players... KDB etc. Aguero has been ridiculous for them over the years, without his talent I doubt they'd have won as much.
 
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Shamikebab said:
Nothing wrong with playing on the counter, possession is meaningless if you do nothing with it. I'd rather have 20% possession and look like scoring than be like City or LVG days and have 80% but never look like scoring.
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Not all teams will let you play on the counter though. It's usually only the decent teams that attack enough to allow that as a viable tactic.

Nearly every team parks the bus and camps in their own area against Liverpool and it's frustrating to watch. It's hard to coax these teams out to create a bit of space to play into.
 
IvanDobskey said:
Not all teams will let you play on the counter though. It's usually only the decent teams that attack enough to allow that as a viable tactic.

Nearly every team parks the bus and camps in their own area against Liverpool and it's frustrating to watch. It's hard to coax these teams out to create a bit of space to play into.
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Well obviously. I didn't say that was viable every game or that we even do it every game. Our problems this season have been the games where we've been against a low block. That has improved since Fernandes joined and will again when Pogba and Rashford are back.
 
Surprisingly Chong has signed a new contract. It seemed for certain that he was leaving in the summer but for some reason that has flipped. Can't say I've been impressed with him but he's still young and clearly people are seeing something in him.
 
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