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Garner isn't really a DM though, he's a B2B. Also what makes you think Andre Silve is better than Martial? The guy has flopped in Italy and Spain and is only having his first good season now at a club that is notorious for having strikers not perform after leaving them (Jovic, Haller)

Don't think we're signing a CB, not while Bailly is still here, we don't need five.

Priority is a right winger, DM and ideally cover for AWB so Williams can go out on loan.
 
FrankJH said:
I would love Rice, but he is going to be vastly over priced for his experience just because he's English - if WHU dont ask for 50-60m+ Lingard I would be surprised (and I wouldnt be that surprised if they refuse outright, or just say £100m cash no matter what or something equally outlandish)
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I do not think he will be overpriced and is really someone we are dying for. Plus he is already premier league proven and only 22 years old with over 100 premier league apps over 4 seasons. Lingard has bumped his price up so if we can get Rice for 50 mil plus Jesse I think that will be fantastic.

Remember Lingard has essentially cost us nothing as he is an academy player and is surplus to requirements. Think of him more as a discount coupon.
 
Is Rice that good? I confess I've not seen a lot of him but in the games vs United I haven't been blown away. There was some press chatter last week that United scouts had some reservations about his lack of pace. Ndidi looks a better player to me albeit maybe less likely to leave if Leicester get a CL spot. What is it that people think is great about Rice?
 
Calpol said:
Is Rice that good? I confess I've not seen a lot of him but in the games vs United I haven't been blown away. There was some press chatter last week that United scouts had some reservations about his lack of pace. Ndidi looks a better player to me albeit maybe less likely to leave if Leicester get a CL spot. What is it that people think is great about Rice?
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I think it is more the ease of it. Possible swap deal with Lingard and young player. Potential to grow in a bigger club. It's the type of player we need.
 
adam cool dude said:
I think it is more the ease of it. Possible swap deal with Lingard and young player. Potential to grow in a bigger club. It's the type of player we need.
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I think the complete opposite. I think WH will know that we have no intention of playing Lingard despite this seasons form and they don't want to sell Rice. I think out of all the DM choices we have, he could easily be the hardest/most expensive. Especially if WH get CL next season.
 
Anyone is better than Martial this season, would be hard not to be.

Rashford has progressed massively in the same time frame, where as Martial has stagnated a bit (certainly hasnt improved anywhere as much) , by all reports still wanting to play as a CF which he isnt that suited for. Martial is also two years older remember.


Anyone who thinks Rice will go for sub £80m (£50m + Lingard) is dreaming - it just isnt going to happen without a year or two more nearer the end of his contract.
 
Symptomatic if everything that is wrong with the squad

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Salary £8.3m per year!
 
Given he's previous posts i assume Mata?

Although i'm confused why it shows 8 appearances and 3 subs, when none of the breakdowns show a sub appearance.
 
Mata has never really justified any wage above £100k/week and that was at his peak. Hes always been too slow and weak for United which is odd because he never struggled at Chelsea and was a top top player for them. He was 9/10 for Chelsea and at best a 7/10 for us and usually a 5.

We should be getting rid of Mata and Martial this summer out of our "well paid" players at a minimum.
 
There's not a huge amount of experience in the squad at the moment, there's value in having someone like Mata around, mentoring the younger guys. Don't forget he's won it all, World Cup, European Cup, Champions League, Europe League, FA Cup.

He is getting on now though, should probably be heading for coaching :P with United's budget we should have stronger backup players.
 
mid_gen said:
There's not a huge amount of experience in the squad at the moment, there's value in having someone like Mata around, mentoring the younger guys.
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Not gonna lie, I'm never sure how much value there is in experience beyond their value on the pitch organising and leading the team. What do players learn from someone like Mata that they don't learn from watching the best midfielders in the game. I have heard a lot of players talk about watching the best in the world do their thing and learning from that but I haven't heard that many say that having over the hill teammates helps. They wheel out the generic platitudes like "oh its so good having players like X in the team to learn from" but its always prompted by an interviewer saying "it must be great to have player X in the dressing room with all their experience". Unless they are coaching and good at coaching and actively taking the time with the younger guys there is little benefit to them.

I'm most industries you only learn from people if they teach you. You don't normally absorb it through proximity.
 
Im with you on that - I dont buy the "experience in the dressing room / off the pitch" that is seemingly said all the time.

Mata may be one of the nicest people in football, but he has never really worked out at Utd (and he was never good enough in the No10 role for us in the numerous chances he got, before anyone pulls that old chestnut out) - we should have sold/ released him years ago.

I suppose if could be like seeing Ronaldo (back in the day) and supposedly Cavani now staying on after training (is this added "professionalism") - but with so many pros having personal training sessions away from the club - which you didnt really hear about back in the day - maybe this doesnt count for as much?

Because its such a hot topic at the moment maybe seeing Cavani in training every day (as well as actually playing in games) will help the likes of Greenwood , Rashford etc - the only counter to this argument is that maybe its better understanding his movement after the event from video etc rather than actually there and then in a match, in which case does it matter that he is at Utd, rather than watching him vs any other defender / team?).
 
fez said:
Not gonna lie, I'm never sure how much value there is in experience beyond their value on the pitch organising and leading the team. What do players learn from someone like Mata that they don't learn from watching the best midfielders in the game. I have heard a lot of players talk about watching the best in the world do their thing and learning from that but I haven't heard that many say that having over the hill teammates helps. They wheel out the generic platitudes like "oh its so good having players like X in the team to learn from" but its always prompted by an interviewer saying "it must be great to have player X in the dressing room with all their experience". Unless they are coaching and good at coaching and actively taking the time with the younger guys there is little benefit to them.

I'm most industries you only learn from people if they teach you. You don't normally absorb it through proximity.
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Oh I'm not suggesting we keep him purely for his experience....but with some of the dross we have hanging about the squad at the moment, I'd rather have Mata than some people!
 
mid_gen said:
There's not a huge amount of experience in the squad at the moment, there's value in having someone like Mata around, mentoring the younger guys. Don't forget he's won it all, World Cup, European Cup, Champions League, Europe League, FA Cup.

He is getting on now though, should probably be heading for coaching :p with United's budget we should have stronger backup players.
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I wouldn't pay 8.3m a year for experience tbh.
 
FrankJH said:
Because its such a hot topic at the moment maybe seeing Cavani in training every day (as well as actually playing in games) will help the likes of Greenwood , Rashford etc - the only counter to this argument is that maybe its better understanding his movement after the event from video etc rather than actually there and then in a match, in which case does it matter that he is at Utd, rather than watching him vs any other defender / team?).
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I think this argument is silly. You had Zlatan before and it didn't change Rashford's game. Players are made to have that strikers instinct from an early age. They either have it or the don't.

You can teach things like positioning for set plays and defending but that instinct and knowing where the ball is going to go is pure gut feeling and instinct.

I actually think we are going to end up going full circle as players are coming through from grass roots are all playing the possession based game as it makes sense as 443 really came to the front in the early 00's. Players like Haaland/Kane are going to be very difficult to find as that old fashioned number 9 is just being coached out of them.
 
adam cool dude said:
You can teach things like positioning for set plays and defending but that instinct and knowing where the ball is going to go is pure gut feeling and instinct.
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That is complete nonsense, are you claiming people have a striker's instinct when they come out of the womb? I love how Greenwood has literally said how much he has learnt from Cavani but you, a guy on a forum are saying he hasn't.
 
Shamikebab said:
That is complete nonsense, are you claiming people have a striker's instinct when they come out of the womb? I love how Greenwood has literally said how much he has learnt from Cavani but you, a guy on a forum are saying he hasn't.
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Not to mention that Zlatan wasn't a pure striker in his youth or early career. That changed when he came to Italy.
 
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