The New European Super (borefest) League

SimonRigga · 21 Dec 2023 at 15:39

ArcticHeron said:
Again, my point is that having talented playing staff and managers is considerably more important then ploughing money into transfer windows.

Talented playing staff comes from ploughing money into transfer windows. (unless you're lucky with your academy, or have brightons scouting system!)

If you don't have the money, then even if you do luck out with talented players, you're unable to keep them for more than a season (again see brighton!)

Yes if you plough money into transfers it does not guarantee success.. (see Chelsea / Man United recently!!)

But without the cash you're unlikely to win, and then if you do by some miracle, continue to be successful..

So we agree, having the cash ( or luck ) to get talented playing staff and managers is the most important thing.. (but if it's luck you're one season and out!!)

Kill_Phil · 21 Dec 2023 at 15:42

BaZ87 said:
A Super League isn't going to happen, certainly not in the next 10-15 years but the ruling today is good for football. Regardless of what people think of the Super League, UEFA and FIFA aren't any better and their position of being both a governing body and a competition organiser has clear conflicts of interests, as shown by their ability (prior to today's ruling) to block rival competitions.

Yes and no. Competition to FIFA and UEFA is a certainly a good thing but having a closed competition for 'the boys' is anti-football imo.

BaZ87 · 21 Dec 2023 at 15:50

Kill_Phil said:
Yes and no. Competition to FIFA and UEFA is a certainly a good thing but having a closed competition for 'the boys' is anti-football imo.

My post in no way endorsed the Super League. As I said, regardless of what anybody thinks of the Super League, UEFA and FIFA being both governing bodies and competition organisers with the ability to block rival competitions is bad. The Super League isn't going to happen but today's ruling now prevents UEFA or FIFA blocking other potential rival competitions in the future and that is good for football.

Ayahuasca · 21 Dec 2023 at 15:59

ArcticHeron said:
I mean yeah, we're in agreement then...? Emery is essentially playing with the same set of players that Gerrard was, the same squad that we where looking to drop with half way through last season...

Again, my point is that having talented playing staff and managers is considerably more important then ploughing money into transfer windows.

I wouldn't say we're in complete agreement, because you've tried to ignore 4 seasons of spending, as if the previous years of transfers didn't contribute to Emery inheriting a solid squad of players.

If he'd come in to manage the squad you had before that spending, it would have been a completely different story. Of course you need a top manager, but you also need to spend big to compete consistently at the top of the PL and in Europe.

He's not going to be able to continue to finish in the top 6 or whatever with a consistently low net spend, so yes, you do need to plough money in at least every other season or so.

All clubs have years where their net spend is low or even in the positive, it doesn't really tell you much though as a team isn't put together in one or two windows.

adam cool dude · 21 Dec 2023 at 16:05

ArcticHeron said:
And Villa spent less last year then they have in the previous 5 and yet had our best finish in decades. My point was that spending isn't indicative of success for a lot of clubs.

You spent big on a manager. The reason you were terrible was because you had a useless scouse in charge. Not because of what you spent.

adam cool dude · 21 Dec 2023 at 16:08

SimonRigga said:
Talented playing staff comes from ploughing money into transfer windows. (unless you're lucky with your academy, or have brightons scouting system!)

If you don't have the money, then even if you do luck out with talented players, you're unable to keep them for more than a season (again see brighton!)

Yes if you plough money into transfers it does not guarantee success.. (see Chelsea / Man United recently!!)

But without the cash you're unlikely to win, and then if you do by some miracle, continue to be successful..

So we agree, having the cash ( or luck ) to get talented playing staff and managers is the most important thing.. (but if it's luck you're one season and out!!)

Exactly Brighton are extremely well ran but it will not be long until all their great people behind the scenes are poached by the big clubs. They will have their time, just like Southampton 10-15 years ago but their ultimate demise will be the same.

ArcticHeron · 21 Dec 2023 at 16:17

Ayahuasca said:
I wouldn't say we're in complete agreement, because you've tried to ignore 4 seasons of spending, as if the previous years of transfers didn't contribute to Emery inheriting a solid squad of players.

If he'd come in to manage the squad you had before that spending, it would have been a completely different story. Of course you need a top manager, but you also need to spend big to compete consistently at the top of the PL and in Europe.

He's not going to be able to continue to finish in the top 6 or whatever with a consistently low net spend, so yes, you do need to plough money in at least every other season or so.

All clubs have years where their net spend is low or even in the positive, it doesn't really tell you much though as a team isn't put together in one or two windows.

Perhaps I misspoke when I said it's 'considerably' more important then ploughing money JUST into the transfer window. Consistently decent clubs find that balance, right? And it's rarely done well. Perhaps Liverpool are the only top tier English football club to get it so right for so long in the modern era (not counting City for obvious reasons...).

dannyjo22 · 21 Dec 2023 at 17:10

If they had a european wide spending cap or wage cap to bring it in, i'd be all for it. Other than that I don't care either way. I'm not sure it could get less competitive.

Mint8 · 22 Dec 2023 at 10:34

As a 100% armchair fan with no club affiliation at all I would welcome it - especially after sitting through the last couple of mind numbingly boring Premier League games......

omnomnom · 22 Dec 2023 at 10:54

Mint8 said:
As a 100% armchair fan with no club affiliation at all I would welcome it - especially after sitting through the last couple of mind numbingly boring Premier League games......

It has no impact on the PL.

MissChief · 22 Dec 2023 at 10:58

omnomnom said:
It has no impact on the PL.

Well, it will in that the teams in the new league will be making vastly more money than teams not, leading to a decidedly lopsided league where everyone else is fighting for 7th and downwards. Glad all the PL teams have come out against it though.

BaZ87 · 22 Dec 2023 at 11:08

MissChief said:
Well, it will in that the teams in the new league will be making vastly more money than teams not, leading to a decidedly lopsided league where everyone else is fighting for 7th and downwards. Glad all the PL teams have come out against it though.

Which is broadly no different to the current set-up, where CL teams earn huge amounts more.

The issue domestic Leagues would face would be that a Super League could expand and marginalise domestic Leagues. Currently European games are played every other midweek or so (on average at least) and it doesn't impact that much on domestic Leagues. If and when you had weekly Super League games and when they eventually try to move them to the weekend (something UEFA will no doubt try eventually) it will hit domestic Leagues and lower their value. This is the fear domestic Leagues have and also the reason why Real and Barca are so keen on it. The PL's TV rights are blowing the rest of Europe out of the water and they want/need to European TV rights to account for a greater proportion of overall revenue so that domestic TV rights aren't so important.

Mint8 · 22 Dec 2023 at 14:44

omnomnom said:
It has no impact on the PL.

You know that how ?

It probably isnt happening given the fan backlash when they tried before - but its perfectly possible if it did that over time those teams might leave the PL (or be kicked out) or damage it severely - literally anything could happen.

Reuben klang · 22 Dec 2023 at 15:43

BaZ87 said:
Which is broadly no different to the current set-up, where CL teams earn huge amounts more.

The issue domestic Leagues would face would be that a Super League could expand and marginalise domestic Leagues. Currently European games are played every other midweek or so (on average at least) and it doesn't impact that much on domestic Leagues. If and when you had weekly Super League games and when they eventually try to move them to the weekend (something UEFA will no doubt try eventually) it will hit domestic Leagues and lower their value. This is the fear domestic Leagues have and also the reason why Real and Barca are so keen on it. The PL's TV rights are blowing the rest of Europe out of the water and they want/need to European TV rights to account for a greater proportion of overall revenue so that domestic TV rights aren't so important.

I’m sure I read that mid week viewing figures aren’t that great and thats why sky doesn’t really care about them or the CL. So i’m sure they will try and push their games to the weekend.

Same with the CL (final) they done the whole, needs to be moved to a saturday

omnomnom · 22 Dec 2023 at 16:14

Mint8 said:
You know that how ?

It probably isnt happening given the fan backlash when they tried before - but its perfectly possible if it did that over time those teams might leave the PL (or be kicked out) or damage it severely - literally anything could happen.

That isnt what is being proposed so youre making up a scenario that isnt even on the cards.