The "New Gear/Willy Waving" thread

My claim is merely that both Nikon and Canon will eventually drop the mirror from their entire line up of cameras. Sony more or less already has, Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic already have.

Could this have anything to do with Canon and Nikon together have 80% of the market share and the rest fight it out for the remaining 20% and they feel it's not worth it anymore and there is a new market of mirrorless where Canon and Nikon doesn't have the same dominate foot hold so they want to get in first and establish themselves?

As opposed to Mirrorless is going to take over the world and DSLR is going to die?

edit, make that 90%.

No wonder they pulled out, there is no money to be made for anyone else !

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/japa...-presence-shrinks-mirrorless-share-increases/

lsB7cSI.gif
 
Last edited:
Could this have anything to do with Canon and Nikon together have 80% of the market share and the rest fight it out for the remaining 20% and they feel it's not worth it anymore and there is a new market of mirrorless where Canon and Nikon doesn't have the same dominate foot hold so they want to get in first and establish themselves?

As opposed to Mirrorless is going to take over the world and DSLR is going to die?

EDIT: You image is stupid, of course canon and Nikon have 90% of the DSLR share, no one else really makes DSLRs! That doesn't prove anything.

You are right in in the fact that the other manufacturers dropped the mirror to try to get market share in a new segment. However, that doesn't mitigate the fact there are many big issues with mirrors that are easily solved by removing it, while the issues of having no mirror can be easily resolved with technology improvements (the mirror design is at the end of the road, you can't flip a chunk of glass out the way any faster).



Why do you think DSLRs with mirrors have any kind of future? I love optical viewfinders and want the best AF but there is no reason to believe an EVF cannot surpass an optical design. After the sensor the mirror is the most expensive part of the camera and causes the most serious failures. Pretty much every industry insider believes the mirrors will all go, just a question of time.
 
Last edited:
I never said DSLR is the future, but i also don't think of the bleak picture that you think it will have - stopped production.

You just put it in such extreme terms.
 

I think it's fair to say that film has become a niche segment. Digital overwhelmingly dominates the consumer and professional market. Never owned a film camera myself, but I love the look of film personally. To me it has much more character than a typical digital file. I guess others agree and are more willing to accept the disadvantages that come with film.

I think the likes of products like VSCO will add further pressure to the decline in film over the long-term.
 
I think it's fair to say that film has become a niche segment. Digital overwhelmingly dominates the consumer and professional market. Never owned a film camera myself, but I love the look of film personally. To me it has much more character than a typical digital file. I guess others agree and are more willing to accept the disadvantages that come with film.

I think the likes of products like VSCO will add further pressure to the decline in film over the long-term.

I disagree, people who shoots films likes the authenticity of film, the tactile nature, some even like the chemicals. They don't want a faked digitised version..even if it looks just like it. They want to do it for real.

A bit like the Tilt Shift effect. They are purists. They would get a real tilt shift and do it for real, not do it in photoshop and they shoot film because of that, and that is the charm.
 
Just because Canon and Nikon haven't released to the public a proper series of mirrorless cameras doesn't mean they don't take mirrorless seriously or have advanced protypes. It is widely regardless that the Nikon 1 was more aimed at understanding the technical challenges and field relevant technology, which is why its innards are so advanced (mostly similar to Nikon D4) and why a lot of resources went in to making the best AF system of any mirrorless camera.

The lack of release is more to do with waiting for the right time where they can maximise sales, and electronic viewfinders become even better. They don't have a need to go full force into the mirrorless market at the moment but when the time is right they will release them.

Plus both Nikon and Canon have to be careful of each other. If Canon released a replacement 1DX that shot 24MP images at 50FPS with AF better than the 1DX then Nikon would loose a huge amount of pro sales if they can't release a competing model. At the moment it is kind of a MAD stand off while each await the others turn and observes the market.

Both companies are renowned for bringing out technology at very slow paces.
 
I never said DSLR is the future, but i also don't think of the bleak picture that you think it will have - stopped production.

You just put it in such extreme terms.

Well, we will see.

I don't think there will ever be a need to add a mirror to a camera in the future. At which point it is just basic economics, and is why canon don't sale a 35mm film SLR, why Nikon stopped selling range finders etc.
 
I think it's fair to say that film has become a niche segment. Digital overwhelmingly dominates the consumer and professional market. Never owned a film camera myself, but I love the look of film personally. To me it has much more character than a typical digital file. I guess others agree and are more willing to accept the disadvantages that come with film.

I think the likes of products like VSCO will add further pressure to the decline in film over the long-term.

It is a niche product in the grand scheme of photography, yes, but it's still a pretty healthy niche. When Kodak filed for bankruptcy their film division was still turning a profit.

VSCO is nothing new though, photographers have been aping the film look ever since digital came out. I remember adding a Kodak Gold 400 preset to loads of my photos back in 2007, and even then quite a few photographers were doing it for years before me. If anything, the enduring aesthetic appeal of film and the prevalence of preset packs today has probably caused a few people to pick up an old film camera, found out that the results and workflow suited them better and stuck to it.

Finally, I implore you to pick up a Nikon F100 or even an F6 - since you do like the best! - and run a few rolls of Portra and Ektar through it. Or some Provia, Velvia, 400H. Maybe even some Tri-X and Acros. There's loads of choice still. Send it over to a good lab and ask them to scan/make some prints from them. VSCO is generally quite nice but it's a bit of a caricature of film with some added romance, rather than a proper simulation of it.
 
I am still waiting for that game changer.

It may be a long wait, but it will come. I just don't see it coming from either Canon or Nikon but they may surprise me. I think Nikon & Canon will keep making DSLR's like most camera companies kept pushing out cheap compact camera's in the age of the camera phone. My prediction is Nikon and to a much lesser extent Canon (as it has a diverse product range), will do a Kodak.

I think other companies will already have mature systems in place and have a big market share lead by the time Canikon smell the coffee. It will be too late for them then, just like it is with Sony in the DSLR market. For some reason, big companies can be incredibly dumb when it comes to recognising shifts in the market place.
 
Last edited:
It may be a long wait, but it will come. I just don't see it coming from either Canon or Nikon but they may surprise me. I think Nikon & Canon will keep making DSLR's like most camera companies kept pushing out cheap compact camera's in the age of the camera phone. My prediction is Nikon and to a much lesser extent Canon (as it has a diverse product range), will do a Kodak.

I think other companies will already have mature systems in place and have a big market share lead by the time Canikon smell the coffee. It will be too late for them then, just like it is with Sony in the DSLR market. For some reason, big companies can be incredibly dumb when it comes to recognising shifts in the market place.


It is possible but unlikely I think. Nikon is very fragile, very focused on cameras so they have to succeed but that is why they most likely will. Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fuji could all kill off their camera bussines and it has been rumored in the past that some might (canon is a little different, still cameras are a core business but they make so much elsewhere)

The main reason canon and Nikon do so well is a combination of reputation, lens selection, cost of changing systems, all round technical performance (e.g. No one has an AF system that matches Nikon and canon pro models) and doing just enough technical advances to keep up or just ahead of the other players.
You see Sony has tried lots of smart things but have failed in most attempts to gain market and that isn't for product quality reasons but the reasons above.

The main thing canon and Nikon need to do is ensure full lens compatibility so the current lenses can be used without compromise. Adapters are one solution but they have failed to impress and have some technical limitations. Preferable would be to keep the mount IMO but that has some limits where starting fresh wouldn't be a bad idea.
They also need to ensure things like autofocus are the best there is.

If canon and Nikon have to start making fresh new lenses with a new mount then it puts them well behind the competitors. M43 already has a more or less complete lens system. This is where Sony is really falling behind. If you had canons lens selection for the A7 cameras and their AF performed like a 1DX/D4 then why would you ever want anything else?

Canon and Nikon can both act fast if they want to but they rarely feel the need. They both survived/led the AF race and both survived/led the digital race, letting everyone else fall by the roadside.

Nikon rumors have an appropriate article today.
 
And I say again, go and read the filter threads over there. I can go there now and post links to 20 threads with people acting like children :D
 
i say again. how is TP worse then this section of the forum?

TP is a forum dedicated to photography. OCUK is a forum dedicated to performance computer hardware and overclocking. It is quite natural that the photography section of OCUK has lots of discussions about technical maters, gear and off-topic debates.

Considering that TP is no better than here or anywhere else. Pretty much every internet forum discussing photography has all the same threads.


Lastly, I really don't see what your objection is. People interested in photography are currently discussing what they think might be the future.
What do you want to discuss that is so fundamentally more important?
 
TP is a forum dedicated to photography. OCUK is a forum dedicated to performance computer hardware and overclocking. It is quite natural that the photography section of OCUK has lots of discussions about technical maters, gear and off-topic debates.

Considering that TP is no better than here or anywhere else. Pretty much every internet forum discussing photography has all the same threads.


Lastly, I really don't see what your objection is. People interested in photography are currently discussing what they think might be the future.
What do you want to discuss that is so fundamentally more important?
Because u and others turn it into a bickering fanboy war thats why and u have the cheek to say TP is worse. this part of the forum is worse for fanboy fights.

Heck it is worse then the console gaming sub forums .

Seriously off putting coming here once in a while to see the usual fanboy fighting about gear/companies.
 
Because u and others turn it into a bickering fanboy war thats why and u have the cheek to say TP is worse. this part of the forum is worse for fanboy fights.

Heck it is worse then the console gaming sub forums .

Seriously off putting coming here once in a while to see the usual fanboy fighting about gear/companies.

And what fanboy comments have been made exactly?:confused:
You are deluding yourself again. No one is fighting over any gear or companies! No one is badmouthing companies or peoples choices. Ridiculous unfounded accusation.

people discuss hardware relating to photography, the photography business and economics, the future of cameras etc, exactly as intended by the forum. If you don't want to discuss photography equipment then this obviously isn't the place for you!
 
Back
Top Bottom