The next Labour leader thread

[Mr Jack]

I think the BBC isn't biased by design, but there are two factors that are leading to a biased effect. Firstly, they're very Westminster bubble so they spend their time dealing with the disaffected PLP and, secondly, they dint actually generate much news of their own outside this but instead follow the direction set by the rest of the media which is very right wing biased in the UK.

 

[Dolph]

The problem is that corbyn supporters seem to think that Corbyn's activities are are newsworthy because he is Labour leader, and that on its own isn't enough. Corbyn was invisible in the run up to the referendum because instead of involving himself in the campaign, he refused to share a platform with a number of people, and went off and talked to the faithful in small venues instead, and wondered why No-one cared.

His abject lack of policy combined with a refusal to engage outside of his supporters is the cause of his opponents owning the media narrative, not some sort of conspiracy.

 

[Mr Jack]

I think there's a bit of middle ground here, Corbyn has been unfairly treated by the media but he has also consistently failed to help himself. His dislike of the media has spoiled over into a critical failure to get his message out.

He needs to go. Smith is a better candidate than the three who stupid against him last year. I think he'll lose to Corbyn.

 

[RaohNS]

Well she has four years, given the fixed terms, there isn't much to be gained by adding one more year, given our current fixed term election system.

Madness to risk it in a post brexit climate, for an additional year.

I thought it would reset to be the five years? If not, no problem. The election would then serve two purposes: To cement Tories in and to oust Corbyn.

Owen Smith's policies are very left wing, and his speeches are very left wing.. The idea that he should be on the blue benches is absolute horse droppings. Smith's voting record is of a loyalist, he's voting against the whip exactly once: to legalise assisted dying. It's difficult to read anything much about his own opinions into such a record.

And that's going to be the problem with this election: the amount of rubbish that is getting spouted about the candidates from both sides. I don't believe many people are going to be making an informed voted based on what the candidates are saying because they just aren't listening.

Yes Smith is firmly in the socialism side of things. I meant his career before. Call me nuts but I'm quite sure someone acting as a lobbyist is not my idea of a person with left leaning values.

Before this leadership run I have never heard of him. Looking purely at his policies, top notch guy.

Want my concern?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=24797

No issues with Unite being a funding party. PWC (particularly their connections is what has me umming.

Dare say Corbo may have a skeleton in his closet in that regard but its the actions of Blairites in the party that point to him being a Leader who they fear will bring real change.

 

[RaohNS]

I remember the look on the faces of the Senators as he got stuck in. Brilliant.

They didn't know what hit them. Even that Norm Coleman is apparently rated the 4th most corrupt Senator, is not answering fraud questions and is now a special envoy to Saudi Arabia. If you are naughty there's a well paid job promised.

Other than a few notable exceptions I do not believe anyone got one over on Galloway (politically). A man that can out think Christopher Hitchens is a man who is a dangerous adversary no matter how much you try and dress it up.

He even waivered his right to immunity for that circus.

 

[elmarko]

Corbyn was invisible in the run up to the referendum because instead of involving himself in the campaign, he refused to share a platform with a number of people, and went off and talked to the faithful in small venues instead, and wondered why No-one cared.

His abject lack of policy combined with a refusal to engage outside of his supporters is the cause of his opponents owning the media narrative, not some sort of conspiracy.

In reference to the brexit debate I can't help but agree.

When I find myself agreeing with you I may need a shower afterwards but in this case you are correct.

I like Corbyn for his values, but he does preach to the converted & doesn't appeal to the wider electorate. I like some of his views from an idealistic perspective, but can't agree with many of his platform from a pragmatic one.

Change is gradual, not in large shifts - if the left (me included in that) wishes to move society toward a more egalitarian agenda - a more palatable leader & less controversial policy list is required.

 

[datalol-jack]

Raoh, if you kick out Owen and similar MPs out of the party, you'll have a rump of less than 40 left. Think about what you're saying. Plus it's silly not to make the best use of people who know how large companies and vital sectors of the economy work; ditto for sympathetic economists; likewise the salaried and wealthy classes. You don't want a temple of purity where naught but the acolytes are welcome -- you absolutely must draw people across the spectrum to your tent to win and to build long-lasting change.

As for weighting of that poll: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...tt45y2qf40/TimesResults_160726_Trackers_W.pdf.

Pages 6-7.

Another one from ICM:https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2016_july_vote_poll-3.pdf.

First pages summarise the methodology.

Big samples, shocking numbers (taking into account a more Conservative online skew, even) and the averages aren't healthy. We aren't in the margins of error territory here, mate.

Further, Corbo is traditionally strong in the NW region, with NE and the Midlands being somewhat of an issue, to put it mildly, outside London. Again, if you have different data and polls, feel free to share.

 

[datalol-jack]

Scottish Labour were hammered at the last General Election and at the Scottish Parliament Elections. They even lost all seats in Glasgow, unheard of till recently. Instead of trying to forge a distinctly Scottish voice for the Scottish Elections their Leader said the relationship with London Labour would be the same. A previous Scottish Labour leader resigned saying she was nothing but a branch manager. Labour's problems in Scotland go much deeper and with the same leader will not change.

Judging from his oft repeated solution I summarised from his interview, I think he knows it's bad and resigned to it being the case for some time. The answer is just his way of sounding tough and determined, likely Milne's scribblings. I don't think the Scots will buy it.

 

[RaohNS]

Raoh, if you kick out Owen and similar MPs out of the party, you'll have a rump of less than 40 left. Think about what you're saying. Plus it's silly not to make the best use of people who know how large companies and vital sectors of the economy work; ditto for sympathetic economists; likewise the salaried and wealthy classes. You don't want a temple of purity where naught but the acolytes are welcome -- you absolutely must draw people across the spectrum to your tent to win and to build long-lasting change.

As for weighting of that poll: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...tt45y2qf40/TimesResults_160726_Trackers_W.pdf.

Pages 6-7.

Another one from ICM:https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2016_july_vote_poll-3.pdf.

First pages summarise the methodology.

Big samples, shocking numbers (taking into account a more Conservative online skew, even) and the averages aren't healthy. We aren't in the margins of error territory here, mate.

Further, Corbo is traditionally strong in the NW region, with NE and the Midlands being somewhat of an issue, to put it mildly, outside London. Again, if you have different data and polls, feel free to share.

The problem is that there is a lot of MPs within Labour who are naught but masquerading as Politico-aficionados for "people" when their primary concern is themselves.

Do I believe all Blairites should be hung out to dry.. Difficult for me to give a definitive answer. That's my take.

We do want to draw people from across the political spectrum, of course that goes without saying. What we are having here with Corbyn is really something which hasn't been seen in this nor the former generations memories. Corbyn is in the cross hairs, on the ropes and has Damocles swords above his head at every turn set by his party. This is what makes me question things. To what purpose are people opposed (in the PLP) to someone who commands 60% support from its membership? What? If its about unelectability, hold a GE. It makes no real odds.

Thanks for the info, quite surprising indeed. I would still be saying the acid test should be applied mind.

I didn't have poll data hence I was just asking why/what the makeup of this was.

In any instance we know Owen will have a lovely ride coming in with the BBC, he did after all fulfill something from them and is a recent beneficiary of their sums of money.

 

[jimjamuk]

Im afraid Corbyn is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to news - in this modern world his answer just seems to be disappear off the face of the planet for a few days or to put his fingers in his ears and it'll go away.

well in a way it does but each time just chips a bit of credibility away and the press see him now as easy pray with no comeback. That said the already converted will vote him in again which will on reinforce that what he is doing is right (and thats ignoring any policies he has)

 

[datalol-jack]

Everyone knew Corbo was a quiet constituency MP more comfortable among Labour supporters, but it's Milne I've come to blame more recently for the utter disaster of a media strategy we're witnessing. You know my views on Jezza; McD is a decent attack dog: loyal, can hold his ground on economic issues (with caveats) and combative (too much so, at times); Milne's a total non-entity. And in this triumvirate, which can have a balance of strengths and weaknesses under normal circumstances, if the media guy collapses, the whole operation's bust. Forget the Beeb -- his inability to even nudge Guardian's headlines is shocking, frankly.

 

[Mr Jack]

When even Owen Jones has lost the faith I think it's time for all of us who back a left wing future for Britain to reconsider whether Corbyn is really the best way forward for our future.

See also, the views of hard left economists Murphy and Wren-Lewis (Mainly Macro). Everywhere I look, I see the people who are best at backing the kind of left wing, socialist, Britain that I want arguing that Corbyn has failed and will fail. This should matter to people who want the same thing.

 

[datalol-jack]

When even Owen Jones has lost the faith I think it's time for all of us who back a left wing future for Britain to reconsider whether Corbyn is really the best way forward for our future.

See also, the views of hard left economists Murphy and Wren-Lewis (Mainly Macro). Everywhere I look, I see the people who are best at backing the kind of left wing, socialist, Britain that I want arguing that Corbyn has failed and will fail. This should matter to people who want the same thing.

Is Mason still holding out? After linking the polls, I didn't really want to stick the boot in further. But yeah.

 

[Mr Jack]

Is Mason still holding out? After linking the polls, I didn't really want to stick the boot in further. But yeah.

Mason will differ. I'd encourage people to read what he says as well, I find it ridden with nonsense personally. Polls are currently meaningless. All new PMs have enjoyed bounces and parties engaged in infighting will always suffer in the polls. Both are currently true for Labour. I think the pre-referendum position is a truer reflection of Corbyn: close, but not close enough.

 

[datalol-jack]

The two key events to watch will be the Brexit plan announcement and triggering of A50, with subsequent fallout; if the numbers don't shift, it'll be then a matter of not giving the Tories an ultra-massive majority at all costs, not winning. The new boundaries are also a risk as they'll remove the previous history of mapping polling numbers to 650 constituency seats (broadly consistent in the last elections), so the room's there for a further blinder. FPTP punishes the also-rans, wherever they came even a few votes short.

 

[RaohNS]

Im afraid Corbyn is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to news - in this modern world his answer just seems to be disappear off the face of the planet for a few days or to put his fingers in his ears and it'll go away.

well in a way it does but each time just chips a bit of credibility away and the press see him now as easy pray with no comeback. That said the already converted will vote him in again which will on reinforce that what he is doing is right (and thats ignoring any policies he has)

Or... Its more likely (and true) that the media does not give him a platform.

As an example, Angela Eagle made a remark during the Brexit campaigning that Corbyn was campaigning in a way that someone with the energy of a 25year old would struggle to do and its not his fault the media doesn't film it. Or words very similar.

After she turned around and stabbed him in the back saying he did nothing to help.

He has precisely no comeback to the press precisely because they give him little to no airtime

 

[RDM]

Or... Its more likely (and true) that the media does not give him a platform.

As an example, Angela Eagle made a remark during the Brexit campaigning that Corbyn was campaigning in a way that someone with the energy of a 25year old would struggle to do and its not his fault the media doesn't film it. Or words very similar.

After she turned around and stabbed him in the back saying he did nothing to help.

He has precisely no comeback to the press precisely because they give him little to no airtime

I have seen several occasions where the press tried to give him air time and he, or his team, refused to take it. Corbyn doesn't really seem to have any interest in talking to anyone other than his supporters.

 

[RaohNS]

I have seen several occasions where the press tried to give him air time and he, or his team, refused to take it. Corbyn doesn't really seem to have any interest in talking to anyone other than his supporters.

But we have media linked observers and others now all saying that media establishments portray Corbyn overwhelmingly negatively. Particularly on the BBC 6 ocn.

I'd be interested to hear the refusals and that they lack a credible reason to miss it. Eg when he "snubbed" the Queen the press smeared him as anti-Royal and ignored the reality. This just goes on and on for the press. Again, were I Corbyn anything that can be proven false he should be suing for libel.

 

[RDM]

But we have media linked observers and others now all saying that media establishments portray Corbyn overwhelmingly negatively. Particularly on the BBC 6 ocn.

I'd be interested to hear the refusals and that they lack a credible reason to miss it. Eg when he "snubbed" the Queen the press smeared him as anti-Royal and ignored the reality. This just goes on and on for the press. Again, were I Corbyn anything that can be proven false he should be suing for libel.

The report linked above was about reporting during the resignation week, it is no surprise more time was given to Corbyn's detractors because there were so many of them. Pro-Corbyn voices were much harder to find. Showing the reality of a situation isn't bias.

As for the press, not really a surprise. Much like you won't get positive comments about Cameron in the Mirror or the Guardian you aren't likely to get Pro-Corbyn comments in the Mail or Telegraph.

The worry for Corbyn supporters is that even the Guardian is luke warm on him.

 

[Xordium]

The worry for Corbyn supporters is that even the Guardian is luke warm on him.

The Guardian isn't really a paper for the slightly left anymore though it's a paper based around self-indulgent interest politics and a crusader-like dedication to (selective) anti-discrimination politics.

The last thing they want is a traditionalist Left leader. They are more pro-May than Corbyn purely because she is a woman. If you had a black Muslim lesbian PM who implemented policy more aggressive than Stalin did you'd see CIF have a collective orgasm.