The next Labour leader thread
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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I'll consider voting for the Lib Dems again when every last MP who voted in favour of tripling tuition fees has left the party. Probably not unless their leader makes a grovelling apology for their disgraceful behaviour in coalition.
plain and simple labour is now finished as it stands now they will not win the next general election or any election under Corbyn & his lynch mob.old Chuka should have put his name in the hat for the leader at the begining.but now give it time labour will split
Soldato
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I think it was more his family than him personally.
Milne's 'capable' hand again, I'm afraid. Why is he still around? I refuse to believe he's the only comms and strategy guy that will work for Corbyn, and even allies are frustrated with his last minute antics. He's close to matching Hilton's 'any idea is a good idea' level of careless abandon. Simply untouchable. Is he some sort of socialist royalty?
Milne's 'capable' hand again, I'm afraid. Why is he still around? I refuse to believe he's the only comms and strategy guy that will work for Corbyn, and even allies are frustrated with his last minute antics. He's close to matching Hilton's 'any idea is a good idea' level of careless abandon. Simply untouchable. Is he some sort of socialist royalty?
If you look at the Corbyn Momentum plan, much of what is happening now has been on the cards right from the start it doesn't look good. Either by stealth or bullying they are out to take full control of Labour piece by piece.
Their next target is to have a majority on the NEC. At present it's pretty well balanced but this is not going to last much longer. They are or have taken over committee after committee and won't stop until the PLP is elected by Corbyn and the ordinary rank and file members.
I can't see anyway back for Labour if I'm honest and suspect we are witnessing the slow and painful death of the party. They've lost the electorate in south of the country, they've lost Scotland and are now being squeezed in their last heartland - the North.
McDonnell's speech may have gone down well with the party faithful in Liverpool. I listened to it and thought I had slipped back into the early 1970s. All that was missing was Gene Hunt and the rest of the Life on Mars team. Rehashing tired failed policies from a bygone era is not what the electorate want to hear.
They didn't trust Ed Miliband with the economy and he wasn't talking about spending lots of cash. McDonnell is wanting to borrow billions on the nations credit card and he thinks the electorate are going to trust Labour - the mans mad.
Their next target is to have a majority on the NEC. At present it's pretty well balanced but this is not going to last much longer. They are or have taken over committee after committee and won't stop until the PLP is elected by Corbyn and the ordinary rank and file members.
I can't see anyway back for Labour if I'm honest and suspect we are witnessing the slow and painful death of the party. They've lost the electorate in south of the country, they've lost Scotland and are now being squeezed in their last heartland - the North.
McDonnell's speech may have gone down well with the party faithful in Liverpool. I listened to it and thought I had slipped back into the early 1970s. All that was missing was Gene Hunt and the rest of the Life on Mars team. Rehashing tired failed policies from a bygone era is not what the electorate want to hear.
They didn't trust Ed Miliband with the economy and he wasn't talking about spending lots of cash. McDonnell is wanting to borrow billions on the nations credit card and he thinks the electorate are going to trust Labour - the mans mad.
Soldato
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It reminded me of Benn's manifesto for 'real' change and the following article: http://labourlist.org/2014/03/praise-benn-but-never-forget-the-damage-he-did-to-labour/. The ol' guard is really gunning for that level of totemic struggle. History repeating itself. Just listen to Skinner wistfully ranting away. Dear, oh dear.
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TBH as soon as someone mentions the "Nation's Credit Card" I cringe and switch off. It's a rubbish analogy that ignores much of the nuance of national debt. It existed only as a means for Cameron and Osborne to explain their plans for the nation's finances to stupid people.
I don't agree with McDonnell either. But measuring policy against the barometer of the "Nation's Credit Card" is dangerous and stupid. It risks limiting the options of future governments because the public have become conditioned to believe that all public debt is always bad (by a government that only played lipservice to reducing the national debt).
I don't agree with McDonnell either. But measuring policy against the barometer of the "Nation's Credit Card" is dangerous and stupid. It risks limiting the options of future governments because the public have become conditioned to believe that all public debt is always bad (by a government that only played lipservice to reducing the national debt).
I'm well aware that governments (all governments) borrow money. In fact a government doesn't have any money of their own, it's either money from the taxpayer or it's borrowed money.
However, it's the taxpayer that has to repay it in the end. The problem McDonnell and Labour have however is they are talking about spending large amounts of money without saying how it's going to be paid for.
They have mentioned targeting the rich. Well they should have learned from their own history. The last time they went down that route in the sixties and seventies the rich and well educated deserted the country in droves so was counter-productive.
As a country we still have a large percentage of borrowing, something that has been flagged up by the IMF and other leading financial bodies. What Labour is proposing could only be achieved with a buoyant economy and that's something we don't have. We have no idea yet how Brexit is going to impact both us and the rest of the global economy therefore McDonnell and his ideas are simply pie in the sky at this point in time.
Soldato
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Market confidence is a fickle thing too. Let's use a slightly different analogy, if John can convince everyone his approach can deliver the principal and the interest (primarily it's a bet on future growth), and he can magic enough controlled inflation into being to erode some of that debt away, he has something to talk about at least. For the moment, the sort of detail that's required isn't in the plan and the numbers look big. You also have to contend with a historical artefact that conservative governments are viewed as more pro-business and more trustworthy, rightly or wrongly, with debt. In fact, I suspect a lot of big investors would hold back to see what happens regarding major nationalisation projects and supporting contracting arrangements before opening up the purse strings under his tenure at No 11.
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Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
Personally, I was disappointed in mcdonnels speech and his pandering to the capitalists.
Should be supporting co-operatives, not SMEs. Make it easier to access capital for collectives who want to start a venture etc. The "one owner - many worker" model needs to die. Having said that, I don't see an issue with altruistic capitalism being a stepping stone to socialism in the same way that socialism is just a transient phase before communism.
Should be supporting co-operatives, not SMEs. Make it easier to access capital for collectives who want to start a venture etc. The "one owner - many worker" model needs to die. Having said that, I don't see an issue with altruistic capitalism being a stepping stone to socialism in the same way that socialism is just a transient phase before communism.
It is quite funny. The party of the people but they wont vote for them.
Soldato
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Actually, he's woolly on that. A co-op or a syndicate can be an SME or a large 'business' respectively. For now though, he has to at least start engaging the growing army of the self-employed and the core of employment in this country. I think overall he wants to get to where you're thinking through workers' representation on company boards, stronger unions and nationalisation.
It is still so amusing they're so adamant they can win.
Do you really think the Labour heartlands that voted Leave would vote for a black prime minister?
Soldato
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Because all Leave voters are racist?
Not all Leave voters are racist, but most racists voted Leave.
I'm from an inner city area and have talked to voters when campaigning for Remain (as part of the Labour party). The vast majority of people where I live are racist and will never vote for Corbyn because he's too soft on immigration. A couple of weeks ago a Polish guy got his head kicked in by a large group. Then a Polish women being interviewed about that incident had racist abuse shouted at her during an interview.
Soldato
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Places like Liverpool, Newcastle and Manchester will vote for anyone so long as it says Labour on the ticket.
Lol. Campaigning for Labour. Talk about a fruitless exercise. Good luck with the next GE
Hint Mr Labour Campaigner - If you want people to give them your vote, don't call them racist.
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