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Watching the highlights the last few minutes AJ really does seem to have the expression (and not just because he is being beat) of someone who has been put in a position that wasn't of their choosing to be in. I guess why he didn't really seem to care about losing.

He seemed to struggle the whole fight with having to over-expose himself at what would have been normal fighting range in order to do anything meaningful which would be a big problem in a rematch. Paradoxically while Ruiz had a lot of advantage in the transition to close range I think if AJ had been able to hold his nerve and take some risk of just walking in close while protecting himself he'd have been able to punish Ruiz at really close range but instead was mostly losing his nerve and just taking chancy shots at 75% of the way there before backing out again (very risky though). No idea what Ruiz's stamina is like but looked to me like he could be baited into over-exerting himself if AJ had taken more David Haye like tactics.
 
I'm guessing Joshua overtrained or/and had tough sparring - which is his & his team's fault. It's a pathetic excuse that's being entertained due to AJ's (overhyped) status. Do you think if Andy Ruiz lost fat and put on muscle but didn't feel right or was dropped in sparring and was mentally shook but went thru with the fight anyway and lost...anybody would give a ****? :rolleyes: No they wouldn’t - all they would see is an AJ win, and anything Ruiz' team had to say afterwards would be ignored or mocked. **** happens in camps, it’s part of boxing. The only thing that really matters is what goes on in the ring, and AJ didn't lose to a "lucky" punch - he was thoroughly beaten by the better man. The rematch will be telling obviously, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if Ruiz has AJ's number and beats him again in the UK.

Edit: After a quiet few rounds, AJ drops Ruiz and goes in to finish, then Ruiz keeps calm under fire and rocks his world with a left hook (AJ has always been susceptible to hooks). AJ getting dropped in sparring has **** all to do with that. AJ then struggles to recover (he also struggled to recover when Wlad knocked him down, but Wlad didn't capitalise) and then Ruiz adjusted and made him pay for the rest of the fight.
 
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i think big the fight was a big throw. heres why.

no one before this fight would fight him. he was throwing money at people upto 50 million offered to people no one would take the fight.
so he takes a challenger up in the meantime to keep him focused gets beat really random so it seams...wait think about it.

now hes beat .

he gets a rematch in england which will sell out and make him millions against basically a easy oponent compared to who he would should fight.
he will beat him in rematch few rounds or..will make it a boxing tap tap specticle just to draw it out.
then he will have offers from tyson and others for the next fight who previously wouldnt fight him. its a win win. previously no one would fight him now hes lost everyone will que up to fight him. its the most blatant scam fight i seen. without losing who would have accepted a fight ? NO ONE ! he couldnt get anyone he wanted to fight. so hes took a few punches to make it happen as he wanted. just remember this post when he beats ruiz and fights the next fight.
 
Just watched both after fight interviews by AJ. Again still very humble in defeat, no excuses and always positive. I do still think something wasn't quite right but he won't blame anything bar himself. Hopefully the pressure of the rematch doesn't get to him and he retains the belts for a really big fight.
 
~>Dg<~ said:
its the most blatant scam fight i seen. without losing who would have accepted a fight ? NO ONE ! he couldnt get anyone he wanted to fight. so hes took a few punches to make it happen as he wanted. just remember this post when he beats ruiz and fights the next fight.
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Nah.

He was beaten fair and square - and not just beaten, he was ******* utterly destroyed. Remember - AJ holding all of those belts held him in a position of power for a unification bout, now he's lost those belts he's lost that position of power - through a fight he never really wanted. Now has to fight Ruiz again just to get back to where he was (but no longer undefeated) if he loses that rematch - he'll sit alongside the likes of Amir Kahn and essentially will be finished, so he's in a really bad position now - not something you'd intentionally want to setup.
 
Screeeech said:
Nah.

He was beaten fair and square - and not just beaten, he was ******* utterly destroyed. Remember - AJ holding all of those belts held him in a position of power for a unification bout, now he's lost those belts he's lost that position of power - through a fight he never really wanted. Now has to fight Ruiz again just to get back to where he was (but no longer undefeated) if he loses that rematch - he'll sit alongside the likes of Amir Kahn and essentially will be finished, so he's in a really bad position now - not something you'd intentionally want to setup.
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yeah i get that but if you think about his other options if he hadnt had this fight they would be tyson fury or wilder. they would take special amounts of money or a long time and one might not accept. so think about that. one of those two accepts. he would have probably the hardest fight of his career. so wins that probably him done. as no one will want to fight him. they didnt want to fight him anyway so if he beats one of the best left. then at best two top fights.

by fighting ruiz losing hes gunna generate probably more money and more fights which are probably easier. than fighting fury or wilder. would you rather fight tyson twice or ruiz ? you gunna take ruiz. every day of the week. lets see how it unfolds. could just be a lennox lewis job and didnt expect to lose. got caught. you just never know in boxing.
 
~>Dg<~ said:
i think big the fight was a big throw. heres why.

no one before this fight would fight him. he was throwing money at people upto 50 million offered to people no one would take the fight.
so he takes a challenger up in the meantime to keep him focused gets beat really random so it seams...wait think about it.

now hes beat .

he gets a rematch in england which will sell out and make him millions against basically a easy oponent compared to who he would should fight.
he will beat him in rematch few rounds or..will make it a boxing tap tap specticle just to draw it out.
then he will have offers from tyson and others for the next fight who previously wouldnt fight him. its a win win. previously no one would fight him now hes lost everyone will que up to fight him. its the most blatant scam fight i seen. without losing who would have accepted a fight ? NO ONE ! he couldnt get anyone he wanted to fight. so hes took a few punches to make it happen as he wanted. just remember this post when he beats ruiz and fights the next fight.
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I can buy into that to be honest - his expression in the last few minutes of the fight was a complete lack of investment in the outcome like he'd been told not to fight it if he was going down. I don't think it was a deliberately thrown fight as such but I do think the intention was there not to necessarily win it.
 
Could have just been an off night. Plenty of people quick to knock the guy which I think is quite unfair but that is the world we live in I guess. We’ll see when the rematch comes around if he gets beat then so be it if not then he obviously wasn’t up to it during the first fight.

Was listening to Lennox Lewis talk about his loss to Hasim Rahman, seems like the two fights had a bit in common. We know what happened when he got his rematch, let’s wait and see what Joshua does before we judge too harshly.

 
Rroff said:
I can buy into that to be honest - his expression in the last few minutes of the fight was a complete lack of investment in the outcome like he'd been told not to fight it if he was going down. I don't think it was a deliberately thrown fight as such but I do think the intention was there not to necessarily win it.
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He’s already worth over 50m, you really think he’d throw his undefeated record away and have the embarrassment of being beaten by a fat man in his big American debut, just for more money?

No chance. He just wasn’t himself on the night for whatever reason and got beat. No throwing of anything involved, except punches.
 
robfosters said:
He’s already worth over 50m, you really think he’d throw his undefeated record away and have the embarrassment of being beaten by a fat man in his big American debut, just for more money?
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I know but just the look on his face - it was like he just didn't care about the outcome like someone who is working under protest and doesn't really care any more if they keep their job or not.
 
Rroff said:
I know but just the look on his face - it was like he just didn't care about the outcome like someone who is working under protest and doesn't really care any more if they keep their job or not.
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Considering he's been meticulously media-trained by a team of handlers (and if you've watched his interviews he's not comfortable with that arrangement), has a huge team sucking money from him, and has been massively overhyped (e.g. Barry Hearn said he has the jab of Larry Holmes, the power of Earnie Shavers, the speed of Ali, and is a future all-time great)....maybe he was relieved to sort of have that pressure off him?

The idea that they'd throw the fight is absolute nonsense to me.
 
viathinair said:
The idea that they'd throw the fight is absolute nonsense to me.
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I don't think there was a deliberate intention to throw the fight all along but I do feel like something was amiss behind the scenes - not just having had a bad knock down in training or something but more political or personal. His expression for quite a bit of the fight not just when he'd taken some bad hits was identical to people I've worked with who are resigned to the fact they are probably going to lose their job and just don't care either way any more.
 
Rroff said:
I don't think there was a deliberate intention to throw the fight all along but I do feel like something was amiss behind the scenes - not just having had a bad knock down in training or something but more political or personal. His expression for quite a bit of the fight not just when he'd taken some bad hits was identical to people I've worked with who are resigned to the fact they are probably going to lose their job and just don't care either way any more.
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But the first few rounds were quiet as they usually are, and then the combo that AJ threw to drop Ruiz was beautifully executed - AJ was fighting as he should. When Ruiz got up, AJ went in for the finish as he should've, but Ruiz wasn't hurt and fought back (which would probably be very dispiriting for AJ - "what? that was my best combo, and he's not only not folding, but he's roaring back?!"). And then Ruiz knocked down AJ and began to dominate in ways that make perfect sense: (1) Ruiz was nailing him with hooks which AJ has always been vulnerable to, (2) AJ was shaky after being KD'd, similar to the Wlad fight, but Wlad didn't capitalise whereas Ruiz did, and (3) Ruiz has an iron chin and was fighting in a way AJ isn't skilled at negating, so AJ had no answers. I think all that makes up the majority/total for why AJ lost and felt/looked how he did.

Edit: Ruiz was/is also underrated, and was handpicked as a replacement that AJ was supposed to surely handle as a "safe" fight for his US debut.
 
I think people are probably underestimating the effect of that first knockdown, specifically the blow to the ear - shots like that will scramble a fighters brains and take hours or days to properly recover from.
 
@Screeeech has hit the nail on the head. There's no conspiracy here.

If the rumours are true that he got laid out in sparring, took the clip around the ear in the fight and then comes out with asking why he feels like that during the fight, suggests he was more than likely suffering from some sort of concussion.

Its no surprise as we are talking about heavyweights afterall. However I think he needs to go back to basics and lose all the hangers on/entourage.
 
Pretty dodgy then if he actually did get knocked out in sparring as it’s a month before you are allowed to spar / fight again I think.

So behind they scenes they have pushed on regardless of welfare if that is the case.

Tbh looking back I felt a bit sorry for AJ in the ring getting battered. He looked lost and all over the place. Not exactly the US introduction they all wanted. Did he really want all that?

I guess the rematch will be massive and hopefully they put it on in the UK so I can go :)
 
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