*** The Official Microsoft Surface Thread ***

Are you saying about normal Software wont run on RT, I dont regards or calls those applications, Apps are what they are. IM not talking about nor is anyone else saying normal OS programmes will run on RT.

Its going to be VERY easy to explain, this one runs all yoru current programmes that you find on a normal Win7 desktop and more as well as all the Metro Apps that are currently being released on their Market. This one Only runs the Metro Apps.

ANd if you walk in and drop 500 without doing ANY reading on any device, you deserve to have problems understanding, or if you can afford to do that, you wont care anyway.
 
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cu3ed said:
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Its going to be VERY easy to explain, this one runs all yoru current programmes that you find on a normal Win7 desktop and more as well as all the Metro Apps that are currently being released on their Market. This one Only runs the Metro Apps.

ANd if you walk in and drop 500 without doing ANY reading on any device, you deserve to have problems understanding, or if you can afford to do that, you wont care anyway.
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I've worked in IT long enough to know that Mr. Joe and Jane Average are going to see Windows and assume this will run Windows applications. Because Mr and Mrs. Average want to save money they may well purchase the cheaper one. After all it runs Windows, right?

Given the level of knowledge of your average "Purple Shirt" type I don't think the explanation between Metro apps and traditional x86 Windows applications is going to end well.

Microsoft, if they were bold, should have done an Apple. Made x86 applications compatible via emulation for a few releases (like Classic did for OS X) and then drop support for 'legacy' apps. This would have allowed them to ditch the old code that is still in Windows 8 (LAN Manager, anybody?)

It would also have solved the RT/x86 confusion.
 
Mr Joe and Mrs Average seem to have no issues understanding that their 'legacy x86 applications' wont run on an iPad or their Android phone. Why would they get confused about an RT tablet?*

*assuming Microsoft market the different versions properly, which they obviously will.
 
Skeeter said:
Mr Joe and Mrs Average seem to have no issues understanding that their 'legacy x86 applications' wont run on an iPad or their Android phone. Why would they get confused about an RT tablet?*
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That big fat Windows 8 that's why.The little RT on the end is meaningless to them. Sure Microsoft may make the distinction obvious but I doubt it. A lot of people will see Windows and assume it runs, er, Windows! Not some stripped down Run Time.

Just like we have OS X and iOS I think MS would have been better with a clear differential. It could be based on Windows (just like iOS is based on OS X) but with a name that left no space for ambiguity.
 
LordSplodge said:
Terrible presentation, rushed and with hardware that crashed. Not the best start. Also MS have just managed to step on their hardware partners toes. However the worst bit is going to be explaining to users that you cannot run <insert legacy x86 application here> on the RT model. That could be a PR disaster.

Personally I think the Surface will tank. However hopefully it does well enough to push Google and Apple to innovate in the tablet space.
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I guess you're going to be staying with your iMac, iPad and iPhone then...?
 
LordSplodge said:
That big fat Windows 8 that's why.The little RT on the end is meaningless to them. Sure Microsoft may make the distinction obvious but I doubt it. A lot of people will see Windows and assume it runs, er, Windows! Not some stripped down Run Time.

Just like we have OS X and iOS I think MS would have been better with a clear differential. It could be based on Windows (just like iOS is based on OS X) but with a name that left no space for ambiguity.
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Where is the 8 in the title?

It's called Windows RT not Windows 8 RT...

You have two pieces of software, Windows RT and Windows 8. The only similarity being they look the same. Much like you have Windows Phone, I don't think anyone assumes you can run exe files on that do they?
 
Amp34 said:
I guess you're going to be staying with your iMac, iPad and iPhone then...?
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I do own a PC you know! :p A very nice PC...

Amp34 said:
Where is the 8 in the title?

It's called Windows RT not Windows 8 RT...
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My bad, I actually thought it had 8 in there. Still my point stands. Two tablets, one that runs x86 programs and one that does not, both almost identical.

Microsoft did very well with the Xbox. It is not called the Windows XBox. I think the RT version shouldn't have Windows in the title at all.
 
LordSplodge said:
I've worked in IT long enough to know that Mr. Joe and Jane Average are going to see Windows and assume this will run Windows applications. Because Mr and Mrs. Average want to save money they may well purchase the cheaper one. After all it runs Windows, right?

Given the level of knowledge of your average "Purple Shirt" type I don't think the explanation between Metro apps and traditional x86 Windows applications is going to end well.

Microsoft, if they were bold, should have done an Apple. Made x86 applications compatible via emulation for a few releases (like Classic did for OS X) and then drop support for 'legacy' apps. This would have allowed them to ditch the old code that is still in Windows 8 (LAN Manager, anybody?)

It would also have solved the RT/x86 confusion.
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Huh?..so how many people buy a iPad thinking they can install and run Photoshop on it?

You getting something confused here, Windows RT is, Windows RT, the OTHER Surface is, Windows 8 Pro, they arnt even being called anything the same!
Might as well say poeple are not able to tell the difference between iOS and OSX.
 
cu3ed said:
Huh?..so how many people buy a iPad thinking they can install and run Photoshop on it?

You getting something confused here, Windows RT is, Windows RT, the OTHER Surface is, Windows 8 Pro, they arnt even being called anything the same!
Might as well say poeple are not able to tell the difference between iOS and OSX.
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The OTHER Surface? Two tablets, both called Surface were announced: One running Windows RT and the other Windows 8 Pro. That seems prone to confusion if you ask me.

As for Photoshop on iOS...well you can, sort of!
 
LordSplodge said:
I do own a PC you know! :p A very nice PC...
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Well... I only ever see you in the Apple forum.:p

LordSplodge said:
IMy bad, I actually thought it had 8 in there. Still my point stands. Two tablets, one that runs x86 programs and one that does not, both almost identical.

Microsoft did very well with the Xbox. It is not called the Windows XBox. I think the RT version shouldn't have Windows in the title at all.
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I can see your point, there is the potential for error, however windows does have a very strong identity in the operating system world and it would be silly if they didn't use it to advertise their ARM product, especially as it looks almost identical to their x86 version that would be called Windows.
 
Amp34 said:
Well... I only ever see you in the Apple forum.:p
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Yeah that and GD. I work with Windows all day so don't normally browse or post in the sub-forums. This post was originally in GD.

I can see your point, there is the potential for error, however windows does have a very strong identity in the operating system world and it would be silly if they didn't use it to advertise their ARM product, especially as it looks almost identical to their x86 version that would be called Windows.
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Outside of this thread the rest of the Internet (excluding Gizmodo) is not being very positive about the Surface. No personally I hope it does well, not because I have any love for Microsoft but because I want somebody to push Apple in the tablet space. Competition is good for everybody and nobody is yet competing with the iPad.
 
Had been looking at these for users at work but given the ARM version won't support AD and the price of the x86 version will be astronomical compared to massively superior laptops we won't be touching them.

In all honesty I don't really understand who these are being aimed at. I can't see the ARM version effecting iPad sales and I can't see the x86 model effecting laptop sales. There's no doubt tablets will kill off laptops in the future but MS have missed a trick with the surface imo.
 
LordSplodge said:
Outside of this thread the rest of the Internet (excluding Gizmodo) is not being very positive about the Surface. No personally I hope it does well, not because I have any love for Microsoft but because I want somebody to push Apple in the tablet space. Competition is good for everybody and nobody is yet competing with the iPad.
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Can you link to a few as all the ones I've seen (even the guardian) have been rather positive about it.
 
Yea I havnt seen any real negative ones of it, if anything none of them are really saying much as we are still in the dark in a lot of key areas. I would say most seem to be on the fence with most saying what they like what they see so far.
 
Interested in this tablet, especially for Uni if the RT version comes with a copy of Office.

With regards to explaining the differences to 'non techy' people, I hope MS adopt the idea that the RT version is a sort of 'Windows Lite' version and the Pro is a full version, I think that would be the easiest way to get the idea across.
 
The RT vs Pro confusion won't last long. Mainly because Apple will need to do something similar to remain competitive. I.e. bring OSX to a high-end iPad.
 
Pigeon_Killer said:
Had been looking at these for users at work but given the ARM version won't support AD and the price of the x86 version will be astronomical compared to massively superior laptops we won't be touching them.

In all honesty I don't really understand who these are being aimed at. I can't see the ARM version effecting iPad sales and I can't see the x86 model effecting laptop sales. There's no doubt tablets will kill off laptops in the future but MS have missed a trick with the surface imo.
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Personally I think the x86 version will seriously affect the ultrabook market. Probably not this specific model in it's entirety but considering the number of touch screen and tablets with docks displayed over the last month this form factor will make a big dent in their sales.

Michael_10 said:
Interested in this tablet, especially for Uni if the RT version comes with a copy of Office.

With regards to explaining the differences to 'non techy' people, I hope MS adopt the idea that the RT version is a sort of 'Windows Lite' version and the Pro is a full version, I think that would be the easiest way to get the idea across.
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I watched the video MS put up of the unveiling the other day and one thing confused me a little, when displaying the RT version and Office on it it seemed to display the standard desktop rather than metro display...?
 
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I've installed W8 Release Preview on my laptop, and tbh, I don't like it.

Without a touch screen the Metro UI is nothing more than a cumbersome gimmick.

BUT, I do keep thinking that it would work really well with a touch screen on a tablet.
 
NathanE said:
The RT vs Pro confusion won't last long. Mainly because Apple will need to do something similar to remain competitive. I.e. bring OSX to a high-end iPad.
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Why? I think they're perfectly happy having iOS with its touch-optimised UI and apps, and a separate line of 'real' computers. I don't want to try and use a finger with OS X.
 
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