The Official OcUK Vista Licencing Questions FAQ Thread

[Burnsy2023]

Right, to stop people asking the same questions over and over again in loads of different threads, READ the thread first, if you have a question or need clarfication post and it'll be answered ASAP.

Please lets not clog up the Windows forum with endless threads.

When the thread is finished, the answered will be added to the sticky.

Thanks

Burnsy

Please note:

No upgrade of vista will accept a shiny disk as proof of compliance. You must have a validated copy of xp or win 2000 installed on the pc. Clean install now means an overwritten ( if you like) install, not a spanky clean reformat like we all do now.

FAQ:

Can I buy the upgrade version of vista and use it like the FULL RETAIL VISTA pack regardless of Hardware changes by using my XP PRO OEM/ MCE OEM disc?

No, because if you change the MB in the machine you revoke the OEM licence and therefore you don't have the right to use the upgrade without a qualifying product.

You can install Vista with an upgrade disc without needed a current install of XP, you will need an OEM or retail disc and possibly the product key.

When I needed to reactivate my Windows XP OEM all I had to do was to phone up and ask for a new product code. Why should I even bother with retail?

You can upgrade your system if you have an OEM licence, however, the OEM licence is linked to the machine it was sold with. So, with all the upgrades you may wish to carry out, when is your PC no longer the original PC and when is it a totally new machine? Well to simplify things, Microsoft has defined the term ‘device’ to have changed when the motherboard has been replaced, therefore any motherboard upgrade would be deemed a new machine, which would require a new licence. In the past, Microsoft has been quite lenient in their policy of giving out activation codes. With Vista, Microsoft has made a firm stance about not giving out activation codes to people who have violated the EULA. So in future you may be denied activation which would render the product useless. Retail bypasses this problem as the licence is not tied to the machine it was installed on, and consequently you can change the motherboard and still have a fully licensed machine.

So what hardware can I upgrade on an OEM licence?

You will be perfectly entitled to upgrade any item in your PC with OEM Vista, and get a new activation code with the exception of a motherboard and case. The motherboard is considered the "heart" of the machine and to upgrade it would break the terms of the license. You may of course have your motherboard replaced under warranty if it is faulty however. If the same motherboard is no longer available under warranty the manufacturers supplied direct replacement/equivalent is acceptable. The case needs to have the Certificate Of Authenticity is affixed, otherwise the licence is deemed void.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Microsoft has publicly acknowledged there is a bit of a "grey area" with regards to PC enthusiasts. They recommend to speak with the human operator and you should be reactivated just fine.

True, but the EULA has clarified a lot of things that we already knew in XP. There isn't really that much of a grey area.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Burnsy do you work for MS or are you endorsed?

or you just trying to keep people on the right path and keep them legal?

just out of interest

No, I don't work for MS, however, I am responsible for licencing at work and I do have conversations with both licencing experts from our suppliers and Microsoft when needed.

Because I need to be so strict at work, I tend to carry this over to the forums and at the very least people should know what is legal and what isn't even if they do violate the EULA afterwards.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

To be perfectly honest, as long as MS reactivated my OEM copy after an upgrade, i couldn't care less whether or not it violated the EULA

That's up to you, but the point of this thread is that you know that you may be refused activation.

And no talk of piracy please.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

if MS activate the windows then it cant have violated the EULA or ms wont have activated it.

now weather the guy on the phone is a idiot or not he is repesenting ms when providing the activation code.

Read the sticky. There is a fundamental difference between having illegal software and the activation process. You can still have activated software whilst running illegal and therefore pirated software.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

I read on a site that Vista ultimate doesn't require activation, is this true of the OEM version or even of the retail version?
Ofcourse they will require product keys but will they need activating?

I am unsure of this and I will clarify with MS. However, you most likely read that from Paul Thurrott's site, in which case it's likely to be BS. I highly doubt MS distribute Ultimate without product activation.

In fact, I'd bet money on it.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Piracy was not mentioned. My mate has an OEM XP and has change a few components over time and has always had it reactivated by Microsoft, no problem what-so-ever!

Thats fine, as long as the Motherboard hasn't been upgraded.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

i wouldn't class that as pirated. again if ms activate it, to me thats legal.

Then you'd be wrong.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

then why would ms activate it?

Becuase they don't have all the facts? People could say that they replaced their motherboard when it died under warrenty (which is fine) but they upgraded it instead. MS would allow you to activate, but it would be illegal software.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Could you find out about this please burnsy seeing as you have the contacts. If this is true I think vista ultimate OEM will sell out very fast.

I shall find out tomorrow, but like I said, I am almost certain this isn't true.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

My mate change his Motherboard once, Hard Drive twice and he had to get a new motherboard again when the other one had to be RMA'd and got the OS activated again.

And MS were wrong to give you an activation code.

For us, the end users, if MS reactivate the OS then as far as we are concerned everything is legal and above board.

As far as you know it's legal, but it isn't and ignorance isn't a defence if in the very unlikely situation that it went to court.

Who are we to know the ins and outs of the legal side of things?

It's by no means easy, but for most people, they buy a PC from Dell or HP and they do very few upgrades. As a PC enthusiast you are different. This is why I spend so much time educating everyone.

They confirm activation so that is all we need to be legal. If there is more to it than that then we should be told when ringing them up.

It's everything you need for the product to work, but legality is a totally different thing. People need to realise this especilly with MS' stance on piracy and how they are pushing their WGA programme and actiavtion.

If they fail to do so then that is something that 99% of us are not going to worry about.

Vista Utlimate will need activating.

These bits I agree on though...

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

but to who would that be illegal? one conscience ? because to ms its legal as they activated it.

MS don't know it's illegal, which is why they activated it. However, you are right in the sence that it's doubtful you'll be found out. But it is a possibility.

i got XP pro student version installed (MSDNAA) now if i get a new HDD and reinstall it can i activate it via online?

what rules apply to this version? OEM or Retail?

I wanna dual boot on new hdd with Vista Business

The MSDNAA copies have a whole different licence agreement, it's very similar to a copy bought on a Volume Licence Agreement. Yes, you should be able to reactivate online, if not you can phone, you are still licenced.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Say for instance you replace a faulty motherboard with the same make and model, are you saying they don't have to activate XP/Vista for you?

That's the opposite to what I'm saying. Read the sticky. You are allowed to replace a faulty motherboard under a warrenty return. I specificly stated UPGRADED rather then replaced .

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

But when you buy an expensive bit of software you expect to have any rules and regulations printed with it. If not and you go to activate it again and again and MS do so, then i believe it would be MS's responsibility if it was deemed illegal as they are the ones that should check these things out.

I'm sorry, but your arguement just doesn't stand up when you think about it. Let's have an analogy:

I think we've all had it happen to us at some point or another, we've gone into Tesco or other supermarket and put a load of productsin our basket. We goto the checkout and the sales assistant scans the barcodes, and we pay. We get to the car and realise an expensive product isn't on the reciept. No the question is, is it Tesco's fault for not realising and therefore it's yours or should you return it? The legal and moral answer is to go back and tell them, but you seem to think different?

Doesn't matter if i am a PC enthusiast or not. It is the responsibility of MS to make sure everything is ok before activating. You would be surprised by the number of people i know who have had components changed in their Dell, or other Manufactured PC's and then gone on to have the OEM OS reactivated, no problem at all. It is not down to the end user to inform MS of every little thing. They brought out the whole activation thing so they should make sure all is ok before hand.

It IS down to the end user to tell MS everything, just like when you get insurance out, otherwise it's fraud.

Funny how MS have a strong stance against these things when lots of people are getting away with reactivating the OEM OS, time and time again. Looks like they need to retrain thier staff.

I agree, training needs to be improved, but all the signs from MS, is that they are making the process a lot more reliable.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Only the mobo really required a reactivation.

Not quite, the mobo shouldn't allow reactivation on an OEM licence. To answer the initial question, you probably won't need even to reactivate, but if you do, MS shouldn't have a problem, you are licenced.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

When I said reactivation I ment to be reactivated implying a new product key needed.

Activation code not product key.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

While we're here, can we clarify one issue with the OEM versions of XP and Vista.

I'm sure there have been conflicting posts regarding the replacement of motherboards. Some posts have said that as soon as you change the motherboard (unless out of necessity) the OEM license is void whilst other posts seem to suggest you're allowed one or two changes before the license becomes invalid. Which is it?

On OEM licences if you upgrade the motherboard you need a new licence. People are getting confused with an obsolete clause that MS had in the retail licence.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

99% of users are not going to bother to tell MS that the this and that has been done. They just ring up and expect to have the OS reactivated. If MS want people to tell them everything then they need to have a new way of working as most will just be concerned in just getting thier PC's up and running.

MS have made a superb Product in Vista but they need to rethink the costs for the OS as they are quite steep for the average person in the street. And as we know, there are people out there who will try to get something for nothing! I don't mind paying for Vista at the right price. It is a stunning OS. I will be looking to get the Home Premium when it comes out. As for OEM or not, well, i had my OEM activate about 6 times by MS (Got a retail one now) and if they wanted to activate it for me then i was not going to argue with them!

As for the Tesco story, well, that is a different matter. Of course one should go back and tell them but when it comes to software that has been paid for, not cheap, then we should be able reactivate it again and again on the same PC, regardless if we have to change the Mobo etc.

Do you know what? I agree with pretty much all of that. However, dispite what we think should be done, it isn't like that and we have to obay the laws that are applicable, which includes the EULA.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Just to throw this out there.

Lets say your mobo goes, but by the time it does, the model is no longer available, forcing you to buy another model. So what happens in this case?.....

If a different model is provided by the manufacturer then you are fine, as long is the replacement is part of a warrenty claim.

What we think MS should put in the licencing terms is irrelivent. Just to note, I'm not a fan of the terms, but I have to live with it and to a certain extent, so do you. If anyone here chooses to lie to MS, that's your choice and I think discussion of this should stay off the forums.

One point I noted is :

i'll accept that i can't use this on another PC

My question is this: When has a computer changed sufficently that it is no longer the original PC? What one component can you change and then the PC is another PC?

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

sorry mate buts thats the biggest load of tosh I've read on here EVER, I can ring Microsoft up RIGHT NOW and tell them I have upgraded my motherboard and I need to re-activate my original copy of windowsXP 'OEM' and I can guarantee they will issue me with I new product activation id number, and infact on a couple of my custumers machines I had problems and I was even issued with an entirely new LICENCE CODE.

Load of tosh? ok, what would make you believe me? A quote from Microsoft? And YET AGAIN people are getting confused between staying legal and activation. MS might give you an acvtivation code, but they shouldn't and they may not with Vista.

Burnsy

Edit: Oh and I do apologise for the tone of this post, I think I'm going to get on with some work now, this is getting frustrating...