Soldato
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Will leave you with the last word so that we can get on track
The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down
- Thread starter Energize
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WhooshYou’re not going to take your own advice because you think underage abuse victims are prostitutes?
He certainly went into it with no idea what it was like then got upset and publicly defamed the guy who was actually aware of the conditions when that guy lost patience with Musk interfering and said publicly that Musk didn't have a clue.
IIRC it took a lot of effort for the cave diver and the other other rescuers (who knew a little about caving*) to get the local government to accept outside help, then Musk comes along and goers "I'll make a teeny tiny yellow submarine we can all live in" and starts to derail the actual, feasible rescue effort.
At best waiting for Musk's little sub to be designed and tested would have taken weeks in which the kids would have been getting weaker and less able to survive, at worst it would have failed and blocked the cave passage they were using.
The cave passages were narrow/winding enough that people had to bend going through them and air tanks had to be passed back and forward because there wasn't enough clearance for divers to wear them.
Now I'm no rocket scientist, or for that matter a huge brain genius self crashing car designer, but I can see issues with making a "submarine" to go through spaces that have barely enough room for a human, and require the aforementioned human to be flexible in different ways at different times (although I guess you could call a drysuit as "submarine"). I can also see the problems inherent with delaying a rescue effort for an indeterminite length of time whilst you keep trying to get the magical yellow submarine to work, whilst you still need to try and keep the people in the cave alive (risking your rescue personal constantly, and in a situation that will only get worse as they keep going), and hoping that it doesn't rain somewhere the tunnels connect to, resulting in a water level that rises enough to kill them.
*Cave diving is something even experienced divers (and cavers) tend to find incredibly dangerous, let alone cave diving to rescue people which is even worse. And even experienced cavers will listen to people who are familiar with caves they've not been in before.
Soldato
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One caver died trying to rescue them iirc
Not really, it was obvious he was talking about Tony. I just thought it was a funny exchange:
A: Gives some advice.
B: Why don't you take some of your own advice.
A: No way am I'm taking advice from that schmuck.
I think a lot of what you've posted is basically guess work and conjecture, but don't you think it's insulting to literal rocket scientists and engineers who work at SpaceX to assume they aren't smart enough to know everything you've just suggested might be problems? I'm not an engineer but they do have a design spec before they make something?
dlockers
D
dlockers
Seems there is some misinformation re: the cave stuff, Elon was in consultation the actual cave rescue divers and liaised with them while designing the mini-sub/capsule thingie, he also sent over SpaceX and Boring co-engineers to see if they could help with logistics. He's quite clearly told here on the 8th of July to keep working on it, seemingly they were still considering using it for one kid:
(Richard is a cave rescue diver and was one of the divers who was actually directly involved in the rescue of the kids.)
By the 9th of July the mini-sub thingie was ready to go in Thailand if needed.
The next day, 10th of July, all the kids are rescued without the backup option of this mini-sub, instead, they're sedated and strapped to stretchers.
It was an option but it wasn't used, fair enough.
That's when some criticism and mockery started following some comment by a local politician that it wasn't practical. Elon is obvs a bit put out by this as they had in fact been working nonstop on this for a few days in liaison with the rescuers:
Then on the 14th of July and a local recreational cave explorer Vernon who'd provided some initial guidance and liaison to the rescue is interviewed and rather ungraciously states that it was a PR stunt and Elon can "stick his submarine where it hurts".
That's when Elon replies that he didn't recall seeing this guy at the rescue site and throws in the Paedo guy comment.
So basically two guys who provided assistance to the rescue threw some childish insults at each other. AFAIK Vernon wasn't involved directly in the rescue of the kids (thus Elon's comment) despite some reporting giving that impression and perhaps might have been unaware that the cave rescue team had in fact been keen to have the sub as a backup still. Both of them were being ****s tbh. Vernon initially mouthing off about something he wasn't really aware of and Elon retaliating.
Two Thai navy divers sadly died, one drowned while helping to supply air tanks and another died from a blood infection. AFAIK neither of them were trained cave rescue divers, cave diving is very very technical, the sort of people who actually perform cave rescues are very few in number and most countries won't have people with the experience to do it, thus there were international cave rescue divers who flew in for this
(Richard is a cave rescue diver and was one of the divers who was actually directly involved in the rescue of the kids.)
By the 9th of July the mini-sub thingie was ready to go in Thailand if needed.
The next day, 10th of July, all the kids are rescued without the backup option of this mini-sub, instead, they're sedated and strapped to stretchers.
It was an option but it wasn't used, fair enough.
That's when some criticism and mockery started following some comment by a local politician that it wasn't practical. Elon is obvs a bit put out by this as they had in fact been working nonstop on this for a few days in liaison with the rescuers:
Then on the 14th of July and a local recreational cave explorer Vernon who'd provided some initial guidance and liaison to the rescue is interviewed and rather ungraciously states that it was a PR stunt and Elon can "stick his submarine where it hurts".
That's when Elon replies that he didn't recall seeing this guy at the rescue site and throws in the Paedo guy comment.
So basically two guys who provided assistance to the rescue threw some childish insults at each other. AFAIK Vernon wasn't involved directly in the rescue of the kids (thus Elon's comment) despite some reporting giving that impression and perhaps might have been unaware that the cave rescue team had in fact been keen to have the sub as a backup still. Both of them were being ****s tbh. Vernon initially mouthing off about something he wasn't really aware of and Elon retaliating.
Two Thai navy divers sadly died, one drowned while helping to supply air tanks and another died from a blood infection. AFAIK neither of them were trained cave rescue divers, cave diving is very very technical, the sort of people who actually perform cave rescues are very few in number and most countries won't have people with the experience to do it, thus there were international cave rescue divers who flew in for this
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There's a great documentary on Nat Geo (Disney+) called The Rescue about the Thai cave rescue.
What a lot of people don't appreciate is just how niche cave diving is. Sure you *know* it's difficult, but even then, most people can't fathom just how challenging it is. Even the pro Navy divers were out of their depth. That's why a group of blokes from the UK were the only ones capable of pulling it off.
*Edit* @dowie beat me to it:
What a lot of people don't appreciate is just how niche cave diving is. Sure you *know* it's difficult, but even then, most people can't fathom just how challenging it is. Even the pro Navy divers were out of their depth. That's why a group of blokes from the UK were the only ones capable of pulling it off.
*Edit* @dowie beat me to it:
The other aspect is Vernon later tried to sue Elon for millions... over the silly Twitter spat and of course, he lost! Here he is looking a bit confused outside the court:
"Jurors took less than an hour to return their unanimous verdict, following a four-day trial at a federal court in Los Angeles."
Recognize the lawyer he thought was a good idea to hire?
It's the guy that Kyle Rittenhouse ended up ditching... none other than conspiracy theorist Lin Wood:
en.wikipedia.org
So I'd take what Vernon says with a pinch of salt, the actual cave rescue divers were liaising with Elon and did seem to think it was a useful option to have, Vernon on the other hand doesn't seem to have good judgment at all, was happy to pursue a frivolous lawsuit and hire a CT nutter in order to do so.
Elon Musk wins defamation case over 'pedo guy' tweet about caver
Tesla's founder did not defame a UK caver who helped in the Thai cave rescue, a US jury finds.
www.bbc.co.uk
"Jurors took less than an hour to return their unanimous verdict, following a four-day trial at a federal court in Los Angeles."
Recognize the lawyer he thought was a good idea to hire?
It's the guy that Kyle Rittenhouse ended up ditching... none other than conspiracy theorist Lin Wood:
L. Lin Wood - Wikipedia
So I'd take what Vernon says with a pinch of salt, the actual cave rescue divers were liaising with Elon and did seem to think it was a useful option to have, Vernon on the other hand doesn't seem to have good judgment at all, was happy to pursue a frivolous lawsuit and hire a CT nutter in order to do so.
dlockers
D
dlockers
Liaising = a few emails? Or were there actual requirements discussions?
Soldato
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so you could categorise elon's and vernon's responses as examples of pettiness?
interested to know the answer to this too.
You're quoting a post that, for me, says I'm ignoring content by this member and tbh... I'm not too interested in clicking on it, the current forum software thankfully hides nonsense quite efficiently unless someone quotes it, then you become aware that a low-content poster has said something.
Amongst other stuff I've watched Chris Jewell's diving at Wookey Hole which is relatively local to me - it is something I find both deeply unnerving and strangely fascinating.
dlockers
D
dlockers
You don't have to click it, he quoted me and then asked the same question.
(as a side note it is good you found the ignore button, the conversation you asked one of the mods to have with me was LOL).
Come on then, post this conversation. I bet it’s hilarious.
Associate
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Spoken like a true low-content poster.
Caporegime
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Hehe
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